• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Does anybody else dislike Neo speakers?

#21
I don't think the magnet material of its self makes any difference at all, its just that they haven't been around long enough to have enough development time, fine tuning and tweaking to some, but not all the designs out there.
Imagine if you will Porsche putting a whole new completely different ultra light sports car on the market, when there is and has always been something like the 911 since James Dean was just a jam sandwich.
It takes time to iron out all the little bugs, so for now just imagine yourself to be the equivalent of Microsoft customers cheerfully helping to fault find and develop and hone the new cutting edge of modern loudspeaker design. They will one day be revered in hushed tones like the JBL k140 of the future. Maybe the 3015 version 4.1 will be the one
to die for in a couple of years.:bassist:
 
#23
JayAmel said:
Not to generalize, but a not that good experience with MarkBass cabs made turn back to "classical" cabs. They used to "pump" so much (yes, the levels were set OK), that I was always frightened one speaker or another could blow up anytime.

Possibly my fear had no reason to be, but I need to feel zen and trusty when I play.
Click to expand...
Jay, you should have seen the driver in my Markbass 15" extension cab when I stomped on my octave pedal for "Bootylicious". It was pumping like John Holmes on a Viagra overdose! But this cab copes with as much low end as I need it to cope with. This was on a pretty loud gig without PA support.
 
#24
If you think the actual magnet makes a difference your smoking WAY too much dope. The issue here is that over the years the size of the magnet made a difference to the sound of the speaker. The bigger the magnet the more magnatism. With Neo magnets we've lost our point of reference.
 
#26
The sound difference is not due to the magnetic material but what we as designers do with it. Flux is flux but how we focus it and the BL products that we can achieve can alter the sound. New gap geometries have appeared that were just not practical with ferite ceramics.

It all comes down to the TS parameters for the LF response in a particular cabinet and the materials used for fine-tuning mid-high voicing. If a designer doesn't understand these principles, the results may not be very nice overall. We spend a lot of time and effort overcoming what was perceived to be the "neo" sound, which has nothing (directly) to do with the neo material.
 
#27
Rocky said:
I have noticed however that NEOs in new cabinets need to break in before they get a warmer sound.
Click to expand...
All drivers need an initial break-in before they sound right, and the break in process never ends, the suspension will continue to soften with age pretty much indefinitely. I bought an EVM12L in 1974 and its specs continuously changed until I finally sold it 25+ years later. A brand new driver won't sound exactly like a 30 year old driver until it too is 30 years old, give or take.
As to neo versus not, no difference. The driver specs, and age, determine how it sounds. Neos don't sound like 30 year old drivers because the specs are all different, and they aren't 30 years old.
 
#28
It's so nice to see other people on here that realize magnet material has ZERO effect on tone. I can't believe people even buy into that.

Agedhorse, thank you for your insight as well. When you mentioned different motor geometry, are you guys (or any OEM in the pro audio world) using XBL^2 motors? I know that those designs are starting to pour into the home and car market.
 
#30
I have no opinion to offer on neo bass cabs as of yet.

However, I would caution anyone NOT to form an association: NEO = WIMPY. We've got some small neo magnets at work and they are scary strong for their size. Seriously bada$$ stuff. A couple of neos the size of a decent strength conventional magnet would likely break your arm if you got it between them. For real.

So eventually I look forward to auditioning some neo cabs with an open mind.

BTW I found out after the fact that a bass of mine [Dingwall] has neodymium pickups. Had I known beforehand, I would have probably said "eeewwww, I want alnico" but I have to admit: the neo pickups sound great.
 
#34
Cab's with Neo's have been associated with lightweight. No one will buy a heavy Neo cab, but using Neo alone only saves a few pounds. Therefore, everything about the cab has to be changed from the Ceramic version for it to sell. Different woods, thinner plies, cast frames, etc. This is what makes up the tone differences. I dare anyone to be able to discern between two cabs where the only difference is the magnet material (given equal magnetic flux) in a blind A/B. The problem is, If there were two such cabs, the only significant difference would be price.
 
#35
agedhorse said:
The sound difference is not due to the magnetic material but what we as designers do with it. Flux is flux but how we focus it and the BL products that we can achieve can alter the sound. New gap geometries have appeared that were just not practical with ferite ceramics.

It all comes down to the TS parameters for the LF response in a particular cabinet and the materials used for fine-tuning mid-high voicing. If a designer doesn't understand these principles, the results may not be very nice overall. We spend a lot of time and effort overcoming what was perceived to be the "neo" sound, which has nothing (directly) to do with the neo material.
Click to expand...

+1

fantastic explanation.
 
#36
I haven't found ONE that I actually 'like', a couple that I might put up with just because they're light, and a whole bunch that just plain suck.

Don't think the technology is quite there yet for me - too much of a tradeoff. I must confess, I haven't heard the Berg's yet, and most people that have say they're the best of the bunch.

But I think it's still a 'bad' bunch...

They all sound fluffy, loose, and 'weak' to me, and are VERY shy on midrange.

Cheers,
Cameron

powellmacaque said:
Maybe it's because I've only played them in noisy guitar shops. Maybe I haven't played the right brand, I don't know. But I can't really find a neo cab that I can "warm up" to.

I'm a fan of the "middle ages" of bass tone, the 80s and 90s tones, so I don't really like anything ultra hi-fi, nor do I like anything super warm and pillowy. It seems to me that the Neo speakers are considerably brighter, but it could just be me. To me, there isn't much of a weight benefit (I'm a young guy) compared to the tone.

Not knocking you guys who like the Neo cabs, please don't take this as trolling. I'm just wondering if people here still prefer the traditional speakers.
Click to expand...
 
#37
Bassflute said:
I haven't found ONE that I actually 'like', a couple that I might put up with just because they're light, and a whole bunch that just plain suck.

Don't think the technology is quite there yet for me - too much of a tradeoff. I must confess, I haven't heard the Berg's yet, and most people that have say they're the best of the bunch.

But I think it's still a 'bad' bunch...

They all sound fluffy, loose, and 'weak' to me, and are VERY shy on midrange.

Cheers,
Cameron
Click to expand...

The Bergs may be the best, but the AE112 and AE410 still sound like Neo's to me.
 
#38
Boostedrex said:
It's so nice to see other people on here that realize magnet material has ZERO effect on tone. I can't believe people even buy into that.

Agedhorse, thank you for your insight as well. When you mentioned different motor geometry, are you guys (or any OEM in the pro audio world) using XBL^2 motors? I know that those designs are starting to pour into the home and car market.
Click to expand...

here we go again....

I CAN hear a common sound characteristic in ALL the neo's I've tried...trying to describe it is difficult.

I think the magnet makes them make the basket lighter, which makes them make the cones differently, then the cab, all resulting in crappy, too-scooped sound.

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#39
Boostedrex said:
It's so nice to see other people on here that realize magnet material has ZERO effect on tone. I can't believe people even buy into that.

Agedhorse, thank you for your insight as well. When you mentioned different motor geometry, are you guys (or any OEM in the pro audio world) using XBL^2 motors? I know that those designs are starting to pour into the home and car market.
Click to expand...

XBL^2 was from the adire audio brahma subwoofers right? I use to use Resonant Engineering MX series but I competed against them all the time. nice cooling design on them drivers
 
#40
Bass Junkie said:
The Bergs may be the best, but the AE112 and AE410 still sound like Neo's to me.
Click to expand...

+1.

I hate to harp on, but even the specialist dealers Ive dealt with say they STILL hear a difference. It may well be the wood, etc, but I find it very odd that I have yet to hear one I like as much as a ceramic. Hence why ive really started to enjoy the Aguilar/TC cabinets.

There isnt much in it, but when you spend a lot more, you expect the best.

Ill get shot own with a scientific explanation, but the science doesnt always get it right.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back