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Does anybody else dislike Neo speakers?

#41
What we're missing here is the old fashion A/B test result. Neo vs non neo in the same cab, same amp, same bass, same player, same line. Just one variable.

While I can't provide that either, I did replace a pair of decent EV drivers with Eminence 3015's. The sound was better, the cab was lighter. Both sets of drivers suffered from the lack of internal cab volume.

Putting the same 3015's into a slightly modified TL-606, (larger port) gave the drivers room to push the lower notes with full power.

I think the cab design might have more to do with the sound than the type of magnet.

I'm building a cab for the 3015 LF, based on the TL 606, but with increased volume, to better handle the lower frequencies. I'll be able to test it against the other 606/3015, and I'll test the 3015 vs the 3015 LF in both cab configurations, just to see what the difference is.

FWIW, I unloaded a pair of Sunn 158 beta drivers to reduce the weight of a cab I was shipping and get under Greyhound's limit. They were close to 40 pounds for the pair. 20 lbs vs 8 lbs. That's the big difference between old school and neo.
 
#42
Bassflute said:
here we go again....

I CAN hear a common sound characteristic in ALL the neo's I've tried...trying to describe it is difficult.

I think the magnet makes them make the basket lighter, which makes them make the cones differently, then the cab, all resulting in crappy, too-scooped sound.

Cheers,
Cameron
Click to expand...

Psycho-acoustics can be a VERY hard thing to overcome. That's the only argument I care to offer to you Cameron. The biggest thing to remember is that at the end of the day it's your money, so buying the cabs that make you happy is all that matters. But like others have mentioned in this thread already, it's not the motor difference in the driver that is responsible for the tone difference. Cab construction, cab size, over all alignment of the driver in that cab, etc... Those are the differences that you're actually hearing.


mcapote said:
XBL^2 was from the adire audio brahma subwoofers right? I use to use Resonant Engineering MX series but I competed against them all the time. nice cooling design on them drivers
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Correct, the old Adire stuff is a great example. JBL WGTi MKII, Stereo Integrity Mag v4 and BM MKIII, and Exodus Audio are all current production examples. TC Sounds uses an LMS coil in a couple of their high end LF drivers as well that is interesting.
 
#44
singlemalt said:
What we're missing here is the old fashion A/B test result. Neo vs non neo in the same cab, same amp, same bass, same player, same line. Just one variable.
Click to expand...
I have an SWR Golight(neo) 4x10, and also a Goliath(ceramic) III 4x10. Can't tell the difference, until I pick them up. Maybe, maybe the older cab sounds just a tiny a bit 'warmer', but I suspect that's because the speakers have a lot of miles on them. On a gig, I defy anyone to hear a difference.
 
#46
thirtypoint87 said:
Neodymium magnets are smaller (and therefore) lighter than ceramic ones. Magnetism is magnetism; I don't see how the magnet materiel should affect performance/tone.

Most speakers sound their best after a few hours of 'breaking in', but that's the cone and surround breaking in, not the magnet.

good luck!
Click to expand...



raymondl3 said:
I don't care for them. To my ears they sound a little harsh in the mids and brittle in the lows.
Click to expand...

Magnets don't have "tone". Nor do they effect the tone.

I've talked to Eminance designers. They will not make a Neo speaker that sounds the same as their ceramic counterparts.

Why?? Because they don't want to compete with themselves, and they are awar that people actually exist that listen with their eyes.

So, the design and "tuning" of the speaker is different.

The magnet itself has zero to do with the sound of the speaker. How many windings on the voice coil, what type/gauge of wire etc.....that's where it starts.

Sure a 8" dia 1" thick ceramic magnet may hold a higher gauss at 1" away than a neo the size of 2 Orio cookies stacked- even though the neo will have a MUCH higher "rating", but the engineering will rectify that quickly to get the motor to be able to move correctly. (A speaker is essentially a motor).

Does the material have anything to do with the actual sound though?? No.

Now, does the actual weight do something? Maybe.
Bolt up a 90oz magnet to something and somewhere something in the whole system is going to be effected differently than 8oz back there.
Again, something to keep in mind is engineering of the rest of the components can make up for what ever the effect could potentially be.

Saying a magnet is the cause of the tone is like saying stainless steel neck bolts sound better than the nickel ones that are stock.

(I'm sure someone out there will think this- I have a buddy, great guitar player, who thinks the titanium pick-guard on his Suhr strat sounds better that the stock plastic one.....:eyebrow:....yeah, not kidding)
 
#47
singlemalt said:
What we're missing here is the old fashion A/B test result. Neo vs non neo in the same cab, same amp, same bass, same player, same line. Just one variable.

While I can't provide that either, I did replace a pair of decent EV drivers with Eminence 3015's. The sound was better, the cab was lighter. Both sets of drivers suffered from the lack of internal cab volume.

Putting the same 3015's into a slightly modified TL-606, (larger port) gave the drivers room to push the lower notes with full power.

I think the cab design might have more to do with the sound than the type of magnet.

I'm building a cab for the 3015 LF, based on the TL 606, but with increased volume, to better handle the lower frequencies. I'll be able to test it against the other 606/3015, and I'll test the 3015 vs the 3015 LF in both cab configurations, just to see what the difference is.

FWIW, I unloaded a pair of Sunn 158 beta drivers to reduce the weight of a cab I was shipping and get under Greyhound's limit. They were close to 40 pounds for the pair. 20 lbs vs 8 lbs. That's the big difference between old school and neo.
Click to expand...


Except that you can't really A/B in this way, given the fact that for a given speaker, you really need to create an optimal cabinet based upon the T/S specs. Can anyone think of two speakers that have exactly matching T/S numbers yet different magnet materials (for such reasons as has already been discussed)?

I really think it all comes down to the cabinet design aspect of this situation. So many people just drop speakers into a standard shape/sized box rather than doing the design work to get the most out of the speaker.

I used to feel the same way about neo speakers, until I played some cabs that are designed around the drivers correctly. More lows, no less mids and smooth highs.

And lighter. ;)
 
#48
My meager collection of cabinets began with a 1964 model, and the last cabinet I bought was purchased new about two years ago. As far as I know, only one of my bass cabinets contains neo speakers, and it's the punchiest and most mid-present of the lot. Attributing the sound of that particular cabinet to the substance from which the magnets are made makes about as much sense to me as attributing the comfort of my favorite hiking boots to the color of the laces.
 
#51
powellmacaque said:
Well here is my comparison:

I liked/loved the Gallien-Krueger RBX/SBX and RBH series cabs, they had just enough warmth mixed with some sizzle

I DON'T like the Neo cabs as much (not saying they sound bad, but to me the RBX was the epitome of "my tone"). They sounded less warm to me than previous GK cabs.

Maybe they do need to be broken in? I don't know. I haven't played many other cabs because frankly I like GK too much to really mess around with other brands.
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+1 to the GK SBX+ cabs, they are sure are heavier than the neo cabs I have had, but they sound the best of anything I have tried, maybe it is the sealed cab that I am loving, that tight tight bass and strong mid sound with just enough tweeter to give it some bite.

Do any cab manufacturers make neo cabs that are sealed vs ported????

the neos that I have had seem to have to work so much damn harder (think cone excursion) to get any where near the same volume and they never really get there.

just my observations.
 
#52
cbass1 said:
+1 to the GK SBX+ cabs, they are sure are heavier than the neo cabs I have had, but they sound the best of anything I have tried, maybe it is the sealed cab that I am loving, that tight tight bass and strong mid sound with just enough tweeter to give it some bite.

Do any cab manufacturers make neo cabs that are sealed vs ported????

the neos that I have had seem to have to work so much damn harder (think cone excursion) to get any where near the same volume and they never really get there.

just my observations.
Click to expand...

Did you even think about this? More cone movement= more air moved= more sound. I had to adjust to this, out front I was much louder than I thought I was using NEOs. Adjusting my level as I used to do with the reflected sound of the old Altecs was overpowering the rest of the mix. ;)
 
#56
Neo speakers also tend to be a tad more efficient. That has implications for cone material and suspension. And those factors you can hear: different cone breakup modes.
You could of course make the same with a ceramic magnet: you cannot hear magnet material.
The same thing happened long ago with guitar speakers: at the same time they switched from alnico to ceramic magnets and they changed magnet gap height. Guitarists all blamed the ceramic, but the change in tone was caused by the change in gap height. That of course didnt stop manufacturers from releasing very expensive alnico speakers with vintage tone.
 
#58
raymondl3 said:
Question: If the magnet is part of the speaker assembly, how can it's weight not influence the resonance (or other aspects) of the speaker, thereby contributing to tone?
Click to expand...
The resonance (Fs) of a driver is determined by its moving parts and voice coil, not the frame or magnet material. There are some two dozen factors that determine the performance of a driver, magnetic flux is one, magnet material is not.
I've talked to Eminance designers. They will not make a Neo speaker that sounds the same as their ceramic counterparts.
Click to expand...
So have I, on a regular basis. I've also been involved in the development of some of their drivers. It's not a matter of them not wanting to make a Neo driver that sounds the same as ceramic, it's a matter of wanting to take advantage of the improvements that Neo allows, to make drivers that work better than the ceramics that they replace.
That said, the original Deltalite line was lacking; frankly, they rushed them into production and didn't get it right. But the Deltalite IIs got it right, and the Kappalites got it even righter. :smug: IMO they are the best pro-sound drivers available within their price range, or even close to it.
 

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