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Does anybody else dislike Neo speakers?

#81
Here's what Bob Gallien has to say on the subject...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

What are the advantages of utilizing neodymium technology?

The primary advantage is that neo speakers weigh less than ceramic speakers, and since bassists are wanting lighter equipment, this is very appealing to many players. Neo speakers also produce a different type of tone, but I wouldn't really consider that an advantage. It's just another option. Anytime you have a change in technology, you are going to have a change in sound, and you have to learn how to optimize what that particular component is capable of doing. We are in the process of expanding our Neo Series. In addition to our Neo 112, Neo 212, and Neo 412 which are currently available, we will soon start shipping the Neo 410, Neo 210, and Neo 115-II. All of the Neo Series enclosures feature our own neodymium-equipped, Paragon loudspeakers.

Can you explain the variation in sound produced by G-K's neodymium and conventional loudspeakers?

Neo speakers are very linear sounding, and they have great definition. Depending on who you pose this question to, you will receive a different response. Rock bassists will define linear as sounding sterile or cold whereas a jazz bassist will say a neo cabinet sounds cleaner than a cabinet with traditional ceramic speakers. Ceramic speakers actually develop a small amount of distortion inherently due to their construction, and there is no way to not have some of that distortion present no matter what you do. This slightly distorted sound is desirable to some players and to others it isn't. Even though this isn't the perfect comparison, going from conventional drivers to neo speakers is kind of like going from vinyl to CD format. What we are learning through our experience is that the rock artists are sticking with the ceramic speakers while the jazz, fusion, and christian bassists are leaning more towards the neo speakers.
 
#82
mounsen said:
Can you explain the variation in sound produced by G-K's neodymium and conventional loudspeakers?
Click to expand...
No, because they don't publish any driver data sheets with T/S specs and response charts, nor response charts for the finished cabs. All of the comparisons made are purely of a subjective nature, with no objective data presented to back them up.
 
#83
mounsen said:
Here's what Bob Gallien has to say on the subject...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

What are the advantages of utilizing neodymium technology?

The primary advantage is that neo speakers weigh less than ceramic speakers, and since bassists are wanting lighter equipment, this is very appealing to many players. Neo speakers also produce a different type of tone, but I wouldn't really consider that an advantage. It's just another option. Anytime you have a change in technology, you are going to have a change in sound, and you have to learn how to optimize what that particular component is capable of doing. We are in the process of expanding our Neo Series. In addition to our Neo 112, Neo 212, and Neo 412 which are currently available, we will soon start shipping the Neo 410, Neo 210, and Neo 115-II. All of the Neo Series enclosures feature our own neodymium-equipped, Paragon loudspeakers.

Can you explain the variation in sound produced by G-K's neodymium and conventional loudspeakers?

Neo speakers are very linear sounding, and they have great definition. Depending on who you pose this question to, you will receive a different response. Rock bassists will define linear as sounding sterile or cold whereas a jazz bassist will say a neo cabinet sounds cleaner than a cabinet with traditional ceramic speakers. Ceramic speakers actually develop a small amount of distortion inherently due to their construction, and there is no way to not have some of that distortion present no matter what you do. This slightly distorted sound is desirable to some players and to others it isn't. Even though this isn't the perfect comparison, going from conventional drivers to neo speakers is kind of like going from vinyl to CD format. What we are learning through our experience is that the rock artists are sticking with the ceramic speakers while the jazz, fusion, and christian bassists are leaning more towards the neo speakers.
Click to expand...

I agree with this entirely. Sorry, even if Im not technically right, I hear exactly what BG is saying here, especially with the vinyl-cd comparison.

Why do manufacturers STILL make ceramic? Because WE like them, thats why.

I agree it can be down to other factors, but the same size cabinet in the Berg HT112ER VS the AE112 (Neo) has MASSIVE tonal differences. Even the expert in the store stated the ceramics have capabilities that the neos dont, tonally. The construction, materials and tuning obviously have an impact, but there was definitely an aggressive mid range in the AE112s that was just there all the time. Sounded great, but the HT112ER sounded MUCH better to my ears.

If you prefer neo, great, if you dont, great. Ill buy what sounds best to me.
 
#85
[QUOTE="Q";9125165]I guess the root question here is: Are magnets permeable? Pole pieces are and they have benefited from treatments to deal with it. Why should magnet material be exempt from this?

Also I'm enjoying the "semi-consensus" in this thread that neos sound the same as ceramics but yet, "are way better".[/QUOTE]

+1. v:p
 
#88
engedi1 said:
Does this suggest that Bergantino and others are losing money on their neo stocked cabs vs. their ceramic equipped cabs?
Click to expand...

Surely not, just that the materials expense is proportionately greater on the neos.

Consider the costs involved for a $50 per plate dinner versus a fast food "run to the border." The proportion of food cost is much greater for good food than it is for your $5.50 combo plate, but both can be sold for a profit.
 
#91
I'm sure they're willing to cut margins a bit in order to get neos out to a market that is going to be suspicious of these lightweight drivers with tiny magnets on them. Hopefully this does not include too much of a markup after they get more popular.
 
#92
I suppose they could be shaving margins on Neos as a bit of a loss leader strategy. Not so much losing money, but making less profit margin that with ceramics. What I really wish is that I could play the AE series and hear it for myself! No one in Nashville sells bergantino, and I would love to try so really high end neos.
 
#93
mounsen said:
Here's what Bob Gallien has to say on the subject...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Can you explain the variation in sound produced by G-K's neodymium and conventional loudspeakers?

Neo speakers are very linear sounding, and they have great definition. Depending on who you pose this question to, you will receive a different response. Rock bassists will define linear as sounding sterile or cold whereas a jazz bassist will say a neo cabinet sounds cleaner than a cabinet with traditional ceramic speakers. Ceramic speakers actually develop a small amount of distortion inherently due to their construction, and there is no way to not have some of that distortion present no matter what you do. This slightly distorted sound is desirable to some players and to others it isn't. Even though this isn't the perfect comparison, going from conventional drivers to neo speakers is kind of like going from vinyl to CD format. What we are learning through our experience is that the rock artists are sticking with the ceramic speakers while the jazz, fusion, and christian bassists are leaning more towards the neo speakers.
Click to expand...

IMHO this is a pretty right on description of the difference between ceramic and neo. I've mostly played through ceramic, but did own a neo cab, and have played other neo cabs. Neo sounds, to my ears, a little bit thinner and less warm.

Although there are a lot of compelling arguments out there about how a neo should be the same as ceramic, it seems to me that - two things that are different can not be the same. -
 
#95
silky smoove said:
More popular? They're already VERY popular. At least in the northwest, Seattle specifically, they seem to dominate the landscape.
Click to expand...
+1, it's not like neo's are new technology. They've owned the high-end pro-touring sound genre for over a decade. And when you consider that's in cabs that typically run upwards of $10k each that most operators buy by the dozen they're way beyond the experimental stage.
 
#96
silky smoove said:
More popular? They're already VERY popular. At least in the northwest, Seattle specifically, they seem to dominate the landscape.
Click to expand...

By that I meant what how the bass playing public views them. 90% of the equipment in all the stores could be neo but, there are still a lot of ppl that don't own neo gear and thus still need to be "sold" on it. Not all of us get a new rig every year or two.
 
#97
billfitzmaurice said:
+1, it's not like neo's are new technology. They've owned the high-end pro-touring sound genre for over a decade. And when you consider that's in cabs that typically run upwards of $10k each that most operators buy by the dozen they're way beyond the experimental stage.
Click to expand...

I never said they weren't popular, not that this precludes them getting more popular than they are now. Nor did I say they were experimental.

If we could stick to what I actually posted I think that would be more constructive.
 
#98
I no longer see a reason for me personally to own anything but neo speakers. The older style speakers are too heavy - and it's no longer necessary for them to be that heavy. I sold all my old cabs and went all-neo.

Technology has made the older style speakers obsolete as far as I'm concerned. But then, I and many others often enjoy using obsolete technology...just not this one, for me.
 
#99
hennessybass said:
Neo sounds, to my ears, a little bit thinner and less warm.
Click to expand...

My Eminence Kappalite 3015LF would disagree with you.

I'm sure this has been hit on at some point during the course of this thread, but it's more about the total package:
Cabinet type A
+ Cabinet volume B
+ Speaker C
+ Cabinet tuning D
+ Cumulative input signal E
= "Hey guys, check out how my new cab sounds!"
 
#100
It's all pretty much subjective, like anything else concerning gear. If you don't like the sound of neos, then no amount of data is going to persuade you to use them. Just look at " vintage " speakers on Ebay. There was a market for them 10 years ago, as there is today, regardless of the appearence of neos. If anything else, they are more expensive now ( vintage speakers ) then they were back then. I, myself, have tried neos, and use the 3012LF in a small rehearsal cab, but I still use K140's in my gig rig. To each his own.
 

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