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Does anybody else dislike Neo speakers?

#121
The pad network should not be seeing any more that the tweeter sees with crossed over (high passed) signal. It becomes a power divider dividing power away from a 100% high passed signal.

This is a bit of an oversimplification but not that much.

One reason for the myth being perpetuated is that when a speaker system is fed with a heavily distorted signal, there is a shift in harmonics (the addition of harmonics is what's responsible for the overdriven sound) which results in an increase in high frequency energy that the tweeter and any padding network must handle. I have included this variable in the crossovers that I have designed which is why the crossovers and pad networks look larger than they need to be. Hint... they do need to be that big for some users.
 
#122
my back loves my neo.. never found a ceramic this light..SWR marcus miller 4x10" 55 lbs
my ears love the ceramics.....never found any neo(regardless on configuration) that sounds as good as my old Eden 4x10" ,100 lb
in life there are choices.
 
#123
kerrycares said:
my back loves my neo.. never found a ceramic this light..SWR marcus miller 4x10" 55 lbs
my ears love the ceramics.....never found any neo(regardless on configuration) that sounds as good as my old Eden 4x10" ,100 lb
in life there are choices.
Click to expand...

IMO, the weight may not have had any factor in why you liked your old cabinet... perhaps the design choices they made when developing the driver voicing and tuning the enclosure have a greater inpact than you might realize.

Sometimes a speaker sounds good just because all the variables came together in just the right way that it just fits with a player's need. Sometimes this is the result of alot of work (and experience) in the lab and sometimes it's just a happy design day.
 
#125
So, do designers design neo speakers to sound different or "better" than their conventional counterparts beacuse:
a. They want to
b. They can
c. They actual can't make them sound the same but nobody will admit it
d. We really don't have any idea as no company wants to spend the R&D money to find out; we have higher design goals now and don't care about making a neo sound like a XXXXX brand speaker from back in the day
 
#126
Jim C said:
So, do designers design neo speakers to sound different or "better" than their conventional counterparts beacuse:
a. They want to
b. They can
c. They actual can't make them sound the same but nobody will admit it
d. We really don't have any idea as no company wants to spend the R&D money to find out; we have higher design goals now and don't care about making a neo sound like a XXXXX brand speaker from back in the day
Click to expand...
More to the point is that the properties of neo allow transducer engineers to design drivers the way that they would have 60, or even 10 years ago, but couldn't, because of the limitations imposed by other materials. Jim Lansing didn't build the best driver possible with the 1949 D130. He built the best driver possible with the materials and technology he had to work with. I'm sure that this same debate will ensue again in another 60 years, when Luddites will bemoan en mass those gosh awful newfangled plasma speakers, yearning for the good old days of paper cones and neo magnets.
 
#127
kerrycares said:
my back loves my neo.. never found a ceramic this light..SWR marcus miller 4x10" 55 lbs
my ears love the ceramics.....never found any neo(regardless on configuration) that sounds as good as my old Eden 4x10" ,100 lb
in life there are choices.
Click to expand...

+1 to the above comments by Agedhorse and Bill. Every cab sounds different. The neo SWR's sound quite similar to the ceramic Goliath III's to my ear. Comparing one brand to another and then attributing the tone difference to any one component (in your case, the magnet material) usually leads to the wrong conclusion.
 
#129
Magnets do not make any sound. Nor do they effect "tone" in any way.
This is akin to saying you like metal corners on old cabs more than the plastic ones on new cabs because they sound better.

That being said, I'll take it one step further Kerry...the old SWR Triad cabs.........Yes, tone tone tone!
And, still to this day, the SWR Goliath II 410....one of my all time fav cabs.
Ceramic or not.
I wish someone would build a neo cab that sounded like that old Goliath II 410. I'd own two!
 
#134
MikeBass said:
Magnets do not make any sound. Nor do they effect "tone" in any way.
This is akin to saying you like metal corners on old cabs more than the plastic ones on new cabs because they sound better.

That being said, I'll take it one step further Kerry...the old SWR Triad cabs.........Yes, tone tone tone!
And, still to this day, the SWR Goliath II 410....one of my all time fav cabs.
Ceramic or not.
I wish someone would build a neo cab that sounded like that old Goliath II 410. I'd own two!
Click to expand...

Your comment above seems to be paradoxical. I still maintain that if a designed could make a cab that sounds as good as an Ampeg 8x10 or your Goliath II, but with Neos for the lighter weight, then they would...
 
#135
rpsands said:
This. Tone is not a mystical concept, it's eq that's done for you (either by cabinet, speaker, or amplifier designers).
Click to expand...

This is true, that tone is eq. Eq mostly affects timbre. However, I also think that tone is more than eq or timbre. Tone is also envelope (attack, sustain, decay) and envelope is influenced by many many factors, among which are the design of the cabinet. Maybe this what people are talking about when they say they feel more oopmh, or heft, or weight, when using ceramic magnets-that neos have a faster attack and quicker response which makes it sound more hi fi. Just a thought, feel free to correct.
 
#139
engedi1 said:
Your comment above seems to be paradoxical. I still maintain that if a designed could make a cab that sounds as good as an Ampeg 8x10 or your Goliath II, but with Neos for the lighter weight, then they would...
Click to expand...

No, my point, maybe I didn't really be clear, is that I haven't played through a cab that sounded like those in a neo version.
I have thought about grabbing an old GII and tossing some neo's in it though.

I will say this, I do believe that the weight of a cab plays into it in some form.
Maybe not a lot, but it might.


dmusic148 said:
It's been done. A Golight sounds identical to a Goliath III or IIII.
Click to expand...
Great to hear!
I personally not a fan of those cabs though.
 
#140
engedi1 said:
This is true, that tone is eq. Eq mostly affects timbre. However, I also think that tone is more than eq or timbre. Tone is also envelope (attack, sustain, decay) and envelope is influenced by many many factors, among which are the design of the cabinet. Maybe this what people are talking about when they say they feel more oopmh, or heft, or weight, when using ceramic magnets-that neos have a faster attack and quicker response which makes it sound more hi fi. Just a thought, feel free to correct.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, attack/decay/sustain are aspects of the pre-speaker signal and have nothing to do with speaker performance in the modern era. When someone says a speaker sounds "fast" it is almost always either an aspect of the signal before it hits the power amplifier (or sometimes after the power amplifier particularly in tube amps, which apply compression, which seriously modifies attack decay and sustain), OR is related to the following:

Also, cabinet design related to TS parameters have more to do with the perceived "speed" or "punch" of a cabinet than does the magnet material.

A slow sounding cab is usually so because it has a lot of upper bass content that makes it sound flabby. Punch and all that is very often the compression characteristic of the amplifier not the speaker. Although it can be a mix of both.

Bottom line has nothing to do with the "quicker response" which is just a big steaming pile of urban myth.
 

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