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Does anybody else dislike Neo speakers?

#141
I have actually now seen a worthwhile 'weight' difference in a 4x10.

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That 4x10 is amazingly light.

Some of the 4x10s listed as lightweight neo are basically the same weight as my Aguilar DB212....and we all know they are not lightweight! Saving 20 lbs isnt a massive deal breaker, and even less so with a 1x12 when its 10lbs or less with each cab.
 
#143
I tried out a Genz Benz Uber 410 and 212 today. The mids and highs were really complex and generally pleasing, but I'm not sure about the lows. The character is different than what I'm used to. They are is more "airy" than Eden cabs. I wonder how the lowest notes on my bass will be handled at higher volumes -will the speakers bloom or will they sound boxy (?) Still undecided on these cabs.
 
#144
Rocky said:
I have an Avatar B410 that with NEOs and I like it allot. I have noticed however that NEOs in new cabinets need to break in before they get a warmer sound. I bought one of Daves cabinets a few years ago, and it needed some time before it really started to sound its best which happened after maybe 12 -15 hours of stage volume playing? I will never forget how my guitarist kept asking me if I was turning up between songs on our second set when in fact I was turning down, and the sound just got warmer and fuller!
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+ 1000
 
#145
I can't comment on Neo speakers in General, since my expereince was only with one manufacturer
but i can say that these neo cabs i had used were missing warmth and punch.

i had used them on about 5 or 6 occasions in a very loud
rehearsal setting, they didn't get any warmer as time went by
i was going through a 1x15 and a 4x10
not happy at all

i bought a traynor non neo cab as backup
and eventhough it cost 1/3 the cost of the neo stack
it had the warmth and punch i was looking for

now some people will say that magnet type doesn't affect tone...who knows
I am not an engineer, just a bass hacker
sure they were lighter
but i would carry around a boulder if it gave me good tone

thumbs down on Neo's
 
#146
Grabow said:
now some people will say that magnet type doesn't affect tone...who knows
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I know. There are many reasons why different drivers sound different. The magnet material isn't one of them. Two drivers with identical specs and response will sound identical. The cabs you tried didn't sound the same because the specs and response weren't the same.
 
#148
engedi1 said:
Bill. Why is it in your opinion that cab makers don't seem to be able to make a neo cab that sounds like their ceramic cab?.
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There's no reason why one can't make a neo cab that sounds like ceramic. But don't expect any new cab to sound like a well worn old cab. Like shoes and jeans speakers never stop breaking in, and generally get better with age.
 
#149
Only ones I've played are the 12" in my Markbass CMD 121H combo and the Markbass Traveller 151P 15" cab I just got. They sound better than anything I've had to date, including my old Trace Elliot GP7SN 200. It's the weight factor that got me into neo, and I ain't goin' back.
 
#152
agedhorse said:
The assumption is being made that the drivers are identical except for the magnet material. This is not the case, the drivers are not identical, the ability to do things that we (as designers) have wanted to do before but couldn't because of the limitations in the ceramic based motor structures have been eliminated.

The end result is that we can now improve some of the specs like sensitivity and power handling and we can alter gap geometries to decrease HF rolloff result in a new generation of bass cabinets. I can design a Neo driver to sound exactly like a ceramic driver, but what I am doing specifically is taking advantages of the new driver materials to expand performance to where we wanted to go years back but were unable to. There is absolutely no reason why a Neo can't have identical performance to a ceramic (assuming the design target was to do so) by manipulating the appropriate parameters to do so. Our Neos do not sound appreciably "Neo-like", but they are a progression and evolution of our sound based on customer feedback from players like you guys.
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Here is where a lot of people, including myself find the "neo sound" to be objectionable. If you go to US Speaker and view the frequency response charts of the various drivers with neodymium magnets, you will find that some of them have a relatively flat frequency response out to approximately 500 Hz, then it creeps upward to, in some cases, a peak of 7db at 1800 Hz. A ceramic driver by the same manufacturer also suffers from this. Since a 3db increase in volume is double, this results in a quadrupling of the sound volume at these frequencies. This will be very noticeable as a mid range honk.

That has nothing to do with the magnet material.

There are some, most notably much more expensive drivers that have flatter graphs and I would assume based on this that they would sound differently, more smooth and with less of that honk.

Of course, if you're paying double or triple for the drivers, you as a cabinet designer have priced your product out of reach for most people.
 
#153
I have been trying neo cabs for years now, but was never that crazy about them until I had Don at LDS build me a 212/horn cab with Eminence 3012HO's. I don't think they would be a favorite of 5 stringers, but, for me, they have all the low end I need and a very musical mid to upper bass response. My back loves them too. On the other hand, when a neo 15 gets designed to sound like a JBL K or E 140, I'll be first in line to get one.
 
#154
I've always liked them. Seemed to me, was the the cab design rather than the actual magnet. As I found so many differing tones out of neo cabs,I didn't think out COULD be the magnet. Since getting my 1st neo cab, a Bergantino AE112, I've loved that cab from the get go.
Now, if it wasn't for neo cabs, I dunno if I would still be gigging, since my back packed it in.
Got Berg AE112,212,&410. Love them all.
 
#157
Doufuss said:
Since a 3db increase in volume is double, this results in a quadrupling of the sound volume at these frequencies.
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A 10dB increase is double, not 3dB. Now look at the chart for the Jensen Mod 10, which is typical of 'vintage' drivers, including the original CTS SVT.
True some neo drivers have a higher SPL midrange break-up mode, but not all, just as some ceramic do, but not all. In some cases it's intentional, as neo allows driver designers to get the break up mode of vintage without sacrificing low frequency capacity as vintage drivers did.
 
#159
hennessybass said:
IMHO this is a pretty right on description of the difference between ceramic and neo. I've mostly played through ceramic, but did own a neo cab, and have played other neo cabs. Neo sounds, to my ears, a little bit thinner and less warm.

Although there are a lot of compelling arguments out there about how a neo should be the same as ceramic, it seems to me that - two things that are different can not be the same. -
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+1, 25 years playing ceramincs. Neos, I played for a month through an Avatar 2-12 with a Landmark300. Thin and needed more power than the 300 watts from the head. Reminds me of the sound difference between an analog and a digital signal.
 

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