Does Anyone Else Have Dyscalculia? Close to Giving Up

[DianaBass]

Hey! So now that I'm out sitting in a bit, jamming a lot, my dyscalculia is becoming an issue for me. It's not a commonly-known learning disorder, but it affects musicians in deciphering music-related numbers, understanding directions, processing things quickly. My particular issue as a bass player is this. I get up to do a song or two. I'm told what they are, and I feel great because I know that groove. Then, to my personal horror, suddenly the songleader starts into the "okay, so we start on the 5, hold on the one, until I signal you, then do the 4 twice," and so on. I can't take verbal numeric direction, and the other lovely thing about dyscalculia is that you have trouble deciphering left and right. If someone is showing me something while facing me (like dance steps or notes,) my brain can't process it.

The shame that goes with being told "you should practice more" or "you really need to learn the scales and the whole 1, 4, 5, thing" or not understanding on stage is humiliating, as I do practice, I understand the concepts fully, and can play a ton of songs, patterns, and grooves. When I play, I'm told I am a joy to play with by drummers, and I'm in the pocket consistently. I just can't process on the fly. Sure, some will say "just stop going to jams," but that is non-negotiable. I'm starting voice lessons, and fear that I'll end up giving up the bass because of dyscalculia, and the scales/numbering system. The question is 'Is it reasonable to explain dyscalculia to my music network (we're all connected on FB,) what dyscalculia is, and ask for accommodations?' Perhaps if I accompany it with the comic I've posted here that pretty much sums up my experience with it.

 

[Levent]

I'd suggest organising everything Infront of you, numerals of the song titles in front of them, chord degrees infront of chords etc, so as soon as you hear a command you can refer to your sheet.
I don't have such issue, yet I still organise everyting neatly so my future self is thankful on stage lol

 

[viper4000]

Since you're in a regular jam situation, I would communicate this to at least some of the folks in your group. The ones you trust the most. You've mentioned previously that there are some at this jam that are less accommodating. So I'd not mention to them until after discussing with those you trust more.

EDIT: I'll add that jams are difficult. Even if you know the song. Some folks really like the structure of learning songs and playing that exact song in a controlled rehearsal. Based on being on TB for a while, most here do not like the loose nature of jams. Absolutely no shame in that.


Good luck! and please don't give up on bass or music!!!

 

[wallawallabob]

Functional dyslexic here, so not exactly the same issue as you, but definitely an issue for me. I didn't have significant learning problems, but I do have problems: it takes me forever to write this simple post, for example. When I read music (chart or sheet) I have a really hard time going from one line to the next, and codas are very difficult for me. My solution for this is to get charts for new songs electronically. One of the bands I play in is primarily original and the chart will just say "turnaround" or "chorus", but then not say where to go after the that. So, I modify the electronic version so it just reads all the way through.

I also jam a lot, but the tunes are usually covers so I have much less trouble just flowing with the rest of the band. With some songs I just stay out until I figure out how the band wants syncopation/rhythm, then come in.

 

[LBS-bass]

I used to have a hard time with this as well, because I wasn't used to thinking about music in terms of numbers (or letters, for that matter, I play patterns and for a long time I didn't put any sort of label to anything, I just played it).

What eventually helped me was memorizing that there's a fingering pattern to 1-4-5 and within the pattern the five is in a certain place in relation to the one and the four, and so on. It sounds complicated to an outsider who doesn't think the way I do about music, but you might have a similar mind about things.

Every pattern starts with 1, which is the root. 4 is one string over on the same fret. 5 is one string over and two frets up toward the bridge. If you start thinking about those physical relationships while you practice, and think about some common instructions (start on the five), then practice doing that within the 1-4-5 pattern, you might be more prepared.

"Key of G, start on the five" means, to me: Look at where 1(G) is, move over one string and up two frets(D). Start there. And since the pattern is almost always 1-4-5 / 1-4-5 in these jams, that means we're going back to the root (G) next, then we're just playing the standard pattern from there.

"Long one" just means hold; we aren't moving to the four right away, and so on.

These are pretty common instructions for blues jams (start on the five, long one, quick 4) so I think that if you practice putting these different patterns under your fingers, so to speak, you might feel more confidence when someone calls them out. What might help you also would be to have a lesson with someone from the jam who can help you learn how to do these in a more relaxed and private setting so that you feel more confidence when you hear them. Then you won't be as flustered when someone calls something like that, because you'll already know what that means your fingers will need to do.

I don't know if this is helpful but I hope it is

 

[Markfrom_pa]

I deal with this. School math classes were a blast -_-

What’s worked for me was learning the notes on the fingerboard. I can understand those relationships/patterns better than I can with just numerals.

Like LBS-bass said, I figured out what notes equate to what numbers. I still mess that up all the time if someone just shouts something out, but it helped having some rough knowledge. I can get close at least.

An accommodation for me is asking for notes/chords when communicating what we’re working on. I just need to put together the order/pattern from there.

 

[LBS-bass]

but it helped having some rough knowledge

Yep, it's rough knowledge but when you put the patterns to it, it's just words and it's not math. Some folks get flustered by numbers and you have to break that down a little bit to where you realize that "ONE = root, "FOUR=one string over from root" and "FIVE=One over and two frets up."

Stuff like that helps take the fluster out of it once you get into your muscle memory that when you hear "FOUR" you're doing a specific action (look at root, move over one string) rather than thinking about actual numbers. At least that's what works for me.

Eventually you end up just knowing that in the key of G the 4 is C and the 5 is D, but that just comes along with more experience. You really never need to "know" that if you know what the patterns are.

Minor thirds and major thirds are slightly more challenging, but hardly anyone starts on the 3 in blues.

 

[Bikeguy57]

I'm not sure I have an actual learning disability, but that "okay, so we start on the 5, hold on the one, until I signal you, then do the 4 twice," would confuse the s--t out of me! I don't blame you for being confused. What does that even mean?

 

[Michedelic]

I'm not sure I have an actual learning disability, but that "okay, so we start on the 5, hold on the one, until I signal you, then do the 4 twice," would confuse the s--t out of me! I don't blame you for being confused. What does that even mean?

It’s knowledge, the basic language used in musical communication short of a total immersion into theory. The OP unfortunately is hindered in processing that info. How do
you navigate through a song?

 

[LBS-bass]

It’s knowledge, the basic language used in musical communication short of a total immersion into theory. The OP unfortunately is hindered in processing that info.

This is the thing. It's a common language and you'll hear it over and over again if you play in this genre. It's worth learning, because musicians need common ways to communicate.

That being said, not everyone learns well on their feet. I can be like that. I sometimes do better if I take something home, sit down with it, and process it on my own terms. The OP seems that way, too. But I wouldn't let that become a deterrent; you just might need to work through it a little bit more deliberately. Once you get it, it's not hard.

I play in a band with a couple of seasoned blues players and our keyboard player has a commitment; she'll be unable to play a show next month. We've talked about a few possible sit-in subs for her, but one talented player was ruled out by the other two guys for exactly this reason. He's a great intuitive ear player but (apparently) he makes it a point to remind everyone that he doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to describing what he's doing.

Now, that's a great way to tell people that you have excellent ear skill, which is something I respect, but if you want to work and get the gig over some other good player you also have to be able to communicate with other players to some degree. These number shortcuts were actually developed as simpler ways for people who don't know a lot of theory to communicate about where they're headed without having to learn standard notation. To resist this level of knowledge is only going to hurt you.

Understanding how this works is part of the package. We all might learn in different ways, but it's good to know these things.

 

[Avocett]

I don't think that's any reason to stop playing. Maybe some thing will be harder, some thing won't work for you, but if you enjoy it there is no reason to stop, just find what works better for you. I'm sort of the same way. I can hear the same sort of directions your talking about and there is zero chance I can remember those hearing it once. Heck, I can't even look at a phone number and dial it a second later without needing to go back and double check what I saw, and when I don't, I usually get it wrong.

Everyone is always going to say practice more, and yeah, that will help, it helps everyone of every skill level, but I agree they aren't understanding the issue here and it sounds kind of terse given what your dealing with. If you were in a band, and you had specific songs on a setlist and you needed to know those you might be just fine, because you can memorize everything about those songs you need, but in the instance of a jam, it's really emphasizing a bit of improvisation and there is pretty much zero understanding that things will adhere to any strict progression.

 

[MichiganSwede]

Hey! So now that I'm out sitting in a bit, jamming a lot, my dyscalculia is becoming an issue for me. It's not a commonly-known learning disorder, but it affects musicians in deciphering music-related numbers, understanding directions, processing things quickly. My particular issue as a bass player is this. I get up to do a song or two. I'm told what they are, and I feel great because I know that groove. Then, to my personal horror, suddenly the songleader starts into the "okay, so we start on the 5, hold on the one, until I signal you, then do the 4 twice," and so on. I can't take verbal numeric direction, and the other lovely thing about dyscalculia is that you have trouble deciphering left and right. If someone is showing me something while facing me (like dance steps or notes,) my brain can't process it.

The shame that goes with being told "you should practice more" or "you really need to learn the scales and the whole 1, 4, 5, thing" or not understanding on stage is humiliating, as I do practice, I understand the concepts fully, and can play a ton of songs, patterns, and grooves. When I play, I'm told I am a joy to play with by drummers, and I'm in the pocket consistently. I just can't process on the fly. Sure, some will say "just stop going to jams," but that is non-negotiable. I'm starting voice lessons, and fear that I'll end up giving up the bass because of dyscalculia, and the scales/numbering system. The question is 'Is it reasonable to explain dyscalculia to my music network (we're all connected on FB,) what dyscalculia is, and ask for accommodations?' Perhaps if I accompany it with the comic I've posted here that pretty much sums up my experience with it. View attachment 4942239

Hi! You can take voice lessons with no worries--just make it clear to whoever you end up taking lessons with that you learn differently. You're neurodivergent. I have dyscalculia but also have excellent audiation and a good ear--well, a *great* ear according to my teacher. I studied piano as a kid too but have never understood music theory at all and Solfège is like algebra to me: a foreign language. This does not affect my lessons at all. I have no trouble in vocal exercises and I sing both Sondheim and Schumann.

 

[Michedelic]

Another person suffering from it…

U2’s Drummer Larry Mullen Jr. Revealed His Dyscalculia Diagnosis, Which Has Made Playing Extremely 'Pained' — UPROXX

The musician silently battled with the learning disability for some time.

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