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Double Bass Does arco jazz suck?

#62
PB+J said:
"twee" is a brit thing....

Grapelli always plays the same solo--he's like a bluegrasser that way. Or maybe it just seems that way because Django was so incredible

Regina Carter is pretty cool, but still there's something about the tone of violin in jazz that just ain't right
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Well, okay, maybe you just don't like the sound of arco jazz violin. That's just horse-racing-- but Grappelli plays the same solo all the time?! Nothing could be farther from the truth. As one who has listened to his music for decades (as my father did before me), I can say unequivocally that it just is not so-- not even close. Take his multiple versions of "Pennies from Heaven" as an example.

To my ears, Grappelli is one of those rare musicians who seems to transcend the mechanics and speak directly through the instrument. IMO, he was an improvisational genious. I know, you don't agree.

As to Regina Carter, she is quite talented and I do enjoy her music. That said, she couldn't hold Stephane's bow. They should hardly be mentioned in the same breath.

By the way, Django died in 1953, Grappelli in 1997. Grappelli played quite prolifically for those 44 years. He played with Django from 1934 until 1939 and then again after the war. Thus, he played many more years without than with Django.
 
#63
Adrian Cho said:
PC definitely didn't have the sweetest arco tone. After a while it starts to sound like a chainsaw on wood. However you can't deny that what he played (the notes, the lines) swung like hell and even when the lines weren't that sophisticated, they just sounded so damn groovy.

PC hardly ever slurred anything. He articulated everything and that's one of the reasons his arco playing had such a heavy feel to it.

I have been told that heard live, PC's arco tone was not as harsh as you hear on the recordings where it is close-mic'ed.
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I think this is where this thread started out - so, what I was saying is that you don't have to like his arco tone - just because he was a Jazz legend - I just can't get past something that I don't like - tone-wise.

Music as an art form, is painted with sound - if you don't like that sound, then no amount of rationalisation can stop your emotional reaction - you might come to understand intellectually, that it's all good stuff and in different circumstances, it might sound slightly different - but that doesn't mean you will necessarily like it! ;)

Broccoli's good for you - yeah, but I don't like it! :cool:
 
#65
Dave Peeples said:
"does arco jazz suck?" almost as much as vibrato jazz.
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You don't want to borrow my Sidney Bechet colection then? :D

Anyone heard from Ray Parker of late? How's his dedication to the bow doing? The bow offers greater dynamics, richness of sound, variation in effects and articulation (admittedly not the same front end thump on a note - can't be done) and you can play as fast as your left hand will let you. So there are a few bad arco solos out there. Why is that making everyone give up so quickly and give up the oportunities provided to play the instrument in the way it was probably designed for?

Admittedly it ain't easy - at first especially. There is so much scope for doing things your own way or in many different ways that its almost the equivalent of saying you don't like thumb position so I'm not going to use half the instrument available to me when I play. Fair enough and for some they might not want the effort. Doesn't say much for a jazz spirit of experimentation and adventure does it?

By the way, hasn't this thread been done once before I seem to remember?
 
#67
rprowse said:
Well, I guess I'll throw my 10 cents in then.
I tried that 'up down' bowing on the swing feel and I think I really like it. Obviously It'll take more than one session to perfect.
Thanks again for the advice.
Richard
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I think that's a good suggestion, too. Inspired by a guitarist who picked on the second eighth note of a group and slurred to the next, I've tried just changing the bow every other note. Sounds okay, I think, but I've never gained the comfort level to know whether it's an idea that has real potential.
 
#68
Mike Crumpton said:
So there are a few bad arco solos out there. Why is that making everyone give up so quickly and give up the oportunities provided to play the instrument in the way it was probably designed for?
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Mike, I started this thread because I feel that over 16 years of listening to and playing jazz, the vast majority of medium- to up-tempo arco work I've heard has been pretty unpleasant, or at least not up to the level of most of the pizz soloing. I'm not trying to hammer a point, but just wanted to say a) I didn't give up quickly, and in fact still haven't given up; b) I really wanted people to contradict me and point to some arco I'd like; c) I really do think it's most arco I've heard that's been pretty bad. Some people in this thread have agreed, some haven't.

Unfortunately I've been a bit short on time to pick up new music for a few weeks, so I haven't been able to follow up and present the Final Word on Arco Jazz you've all been awaiting with bated breath.
 
#71
The final word on arco jazz?
Imaging a cross between Gary Karr and NHOP, my two heros, Gary's arco sound... yes we'll use the solo tuning but lets cut back a bit on the vibrato, and that fluid sound of NHOP that I love so much. It's maybe not the final word on arco jazz, but that's where I'm heading.
Richard
 
#73
hey, i love johnny hodges AND ben webster... i just don't want to hear a bass line played like those guys played melodies... i thought silly questions begat silly answers anyway... :smug:
 
#79
Came from the 2xbass yahoo group when it used to be cool.

One person posted: My teacher compared the hand motion used for vibrato with that of masterbation.

Another person responded: Just so I don't form any bad practice habits, was your teacher male or female?


That of course has nothing to with this conversation either, but I'm so glad I got to repeat that! This arco discussion has played out anyway, has it not?
 

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