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Double Bass Does arco jazz suck?

#81
You guys are funny with this "sucks" mentality. I think Grappelli was able to tour the world five hundred times over with out your permission or seal of approval. I saw him myself when I was in high school, and he was more expressive than any musician I have seen since.

For bowed bass solos, I think Slam Stewart set a good standard but I have not listened to many other arco jazz guys.
 
#82
mainefiddle said:
You guys are funny with this "sucks" mentality. QUOTE]
I think that I'm right when I say that a 'blow job' got its name because old greek or latin (or old whatever) made no distinction between the words 'blow' and 'suck'. It's really a bit like yeng and yang, or night and day. Good and bad. You get the idea. Let's just say that arco jazz bass blows!
ps. a bit like German bow and French, I suppose. (nah, just kidding.)
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#83
mainefiddle said:
You guys are funny with this "sucks" mentality. I think Grappelli was able to tour the world five hundred times over with out your permission or seal of approval. I saw him myself when I was in high school, and he was more expressive than any musician I have seen since.

For bowed bass solos, I think Slam Stewart set a good standard but I have not listened to many other arco jazz guys.
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This really is about bass, actually. I thought it might be redundant to put it in the thread title, considering what the forums are about.

rprowse, I think you're on to something--perhaps it's only arco jazz bass with a German bow that blows and/or sucks? Or maybe it's the rosin that makes the difference. Clearly no arco jazz bass with a French bow and Nyman's rosin on Dominants could ever suck, let alone blow.
 
#84
mainefiddle said:
You guys are funny with this "sucks" mentality. I think Grappelli was able to tour the world five hundred times over with out your permission or seal of approval. I saw him myself when I was in high school, and he was more expressive than any musician I have seen since.

For bowed bass solos, I think Slam Stewart set a good standard but I have not listened to many other arco jazz guys.
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Well, you and I sure agree about Grappelli! Well, I never did get to see Grappelli live but when I was in high school I did get to see, hear, and speak with Slam Stewart. He is and always will be my jazz bass arco solo idol!
 
#85
Don Higdon said:
No.
Some playing, by some people, sucks.
I don't see that as grounds to indict arco jazz per se.
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+1. I like the idea of jazz arco, but more often than not, I can't help but feel that it's sounds very imprecise and clumsy compared to instruments like a violin. For me, what makes Grapelli wonderful is that he's able to get such a range of emotion with great precision, meanwhile PC's arco might swing, but it just doesn't have the same level of "saying the perfect thing"'edness across. An analogy would be something like bass arco to violin is as a vulture is to a hummingbird.

I like John Clayton's arco alot, but I don't want to hear it ALL THE TIME. PC's arco doesn't speak to me, I just tune out like the main poster said. That said, I think masters knew when it worked for them and when it didn't most of the time, and so they always employed the bow in good taste. So far, I've never heard anybody try to screech out "Donna Lee" with a bow at 350 bps. Maybe someone can find an example, but my guess is that very few people in the world can pull it off tastefully.

I'm sure someday someone with Edgar Meyer's arco chops will come along who has improv chops like NHOP and blow everybody's mind with their playing. Probably just a matter of time.
 
#86
hdiddy said:
+1. I'm sure someday someone with Edgar Meyer's arco chops will come along who has improv chops like NHOP and blow everybody's mind with their playing. Probably just a matter of time.
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Dio mio! E vero! Remember electric bass before Jaco or Stanley? This is the exciting thing! Arco jazz bass is sitting there waiting. Waiting for a revolution! Those guys playing the Bach cello suites up an octace already have the chops that would make Donna Lee look easy. They just need to tweek the swing feel. Miles said years ago (NHOP said it too) that the band with two horns out front was getting just a bit done... like an old bull. The time of the big violin is coming.
Gentlemen, bows to the ready. Will the French be the bow of choice? Si, e io sono il papa!
 
#89
hdiddy said:
+1. I like the idea of jazz arco, but more often than not, I can't help but feel that it's sounds very imprecise and clumsy compared to instruments like a violin. For me, what makes Grapelli wonderful is that he's able to get such a range of emotion with great precision, meanwhile PC's arco might swing, but it just doesn't have the same level of "saying the perfect thing"'edness across. An analogy would be something like bass arco to violin is as a vulture is to a hummingbird.

I like John Clayton's arco alot, but I don't want to hear it ALL THE TIME. PC's arco doesn't speak to me, I just tune out like the main poster said. That said, I think masters knew when it worked for them and when it didn't most of the time, and so they always employed the bow in good taste. So far, I've never heard anybody try to screech out "Donna Lee" with a bow at 350 bps. Maybe someone can find an example, but my guess is that very few people in the world can pull it off tastefully.

I'm sure someday someone with Edgar Meyer's arco chops will come along who has improv chops like NHOP and blow everybody's mind with their playing. Probably just a matter of time.
Click to expand...


+1 on it all-- but I gotta say that many of Slam Stewart's solos speak to me in a way no other arco bass solos do. I admit that it would be difficult to have the fluidity and expression of Grappelli on the bass but I agree that someday our prince may come.
 
#90
A double bass is the shape it is because it was meant to be bowed. Plucking a bass is like using a trumpet as a kazoo or buying a saxophone because it'll look nice on the wall.
Okay, let's be serious for a minute, pizz bass is beautiful too. I often get tears in my eyes when I listen to Neils playing 'Tranquility in the Woods', especially after a couple of vini. But try busking pizzicato. The sound is with the Dragonetti bow... the Butler bow... the German... dark and mysterious. Rosin anyone?
 
#91
So many post already, I couldn´t read them all.
But here is my euro-cent:

I think arco-sound in jazz has to be different than in classical music. Think about it - trumpet, saxophone, drums... - all sound very different in jazz than in classical music and only few musicians develop the ability to play in both worlds and be equally respected.
 

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