Does having a better, high-end bass improve your playing?

[Mystic Michael]

But alas, there is ALOT of flaws in my logic.

Yeah. Most beginners simply will not be able to sustain the necessary drive and determination to continue to slog through months - or even years - of sounding awful while they struggle to learn on a crappy instrument...until they finally can play well enough to make their crappy instrument actually sound good.

But an interesting idea. In theory...

MM

 

[Grantrudd]

ive heard good players sound bad with a poorly set up cheap instrument, but ive never heard the other way around. save your money for lessons. that squier can take you far!

 

[ledyard]

Its like golf.....if you have the basics of the game and are a decent "hack" of a player (like me) who has a crappy set of clubs....then someone handing you a set of $3,000 custom fit clubs will immediatley improve your play. Even if its only a couple strokes it will improve. I would say most of that would be mental though. You will be more inspired. You will have more confidence ect ect... which in turn will make you play better.
With basses, yes a $250 bass can be set up to play and feel like a $1500 bass. But you can only polish a turd so much.
Even if a $250 bass has a decent neck profile chances are the $3000 bass is going to feel a million times better. The way it hangs off you, the neck profile, body profile, and likely sound better. So again you would likely get more confidence and be more inspired to play better.


***** It wont literally improve your skill instantly. But it will make doing what you can do at your current skill level easier for you to do. Thus making if feel like you have instantly improved. Plus if the bass sounds better, you sound better. Then your "new improvement" is percieved to be two fold. Instantly as it were.

If you want an example go pick up a Dean bass that is $189.99 brand new. Have a pro set up done. Now play on it daily for a month. Then pick up a Modulus Q4. Tell me what happens.

 

[cahir231]

IMHO good music comes from good musician, good musicianship, and good instrument.

Good instrument (bass) has to be a good setup bass, even if 'good setup' can be different personally (e.g. the late James Jamerson had a setup that maybe unplayable for other, etc.)

Good basses sometimes, but does'nt always, are the high-end or higher priced bass.

But I'm sure good musicianship comes first.

I've played music for quite some time before seriously committing myself to the bass guitar, so I think my musicality and musicianship is at a pretty high level. It's only my technique that I need to improve on to express this (mostly innate, partially cultivated) musicality in a vivid and cogent manner.

Having gone almost completely through college as a classical cellist by now, my practice discipline is high (as is the time I spend with my instrument). Even so, I wonder if I'm doing things in the right manner (so as to encourage growth in the best and hopefully quickest manner possible).

Along with this wondering came the thought "What if my instrument/setup/resulting sound is impeding my growth?" especially because as I mentioned before, many techniques that I was able to execute successfully and moderately well with the bass unplugged inevitably sounded terrible (or were incredibly difficult to execute well) when I plugged.

Once again, I'm essentially on a crusade of undying desire to make my technique as flawless as possible so as to be able to express my much more mature musical side clearly. I thought I'd just ask some folks over here so as to reassure myself that I wasn't pointlessly and blindly practicing in error (or worse)...essentially wasting my time.

 

[ledyard]

I've played music for quite some time before seriously committing myself to the bass guitar, so I think my musicality and musicianship is at a pretty high level. It's only my technique that I need to improve on to express this (mostly innate, partially cultivated) musicality in a vivid and cogent manner.

Having gone almost completely through college as a classical cellist by now, my practice discipline is high (as is the time I spend with my instrument). Even so, I wonder if I'm doing things in the right manner (so as to encourage growth in the best and hopefully quickest manner possible).

Along with this wondering came the thought "What if my instrument/setup/resulting sound is impeding my growth?" especially because as I mentioned before, many techniques that I was able to execute successfully and moderately well with the bass unplugged inevitably sounded terrible (or were incredibly difficult to execute well) when I plugged.

Once again, I'm essentially on a crusade of undying desire to make my technique as flawless as possible so as to be able to express my much more mature musical side clearly. I thought I'd just ask some folks over here so as to reassure myself that I wasn't pointlessly and blindly practicing in error (or worse)...essentially wasting my time.

I would imagine you especially could testify to instrument quality being a Cellist no? Playing a newer less espensive or even entry level Cello vs. a very, very vintage masterfully set up instrument has to be like night and day. Even if not for playability there must be a drastic difference in sound between the two is there not?

 

[cahir231]

I would imagine you especially could testify to instrument quality being a Cellist no? Playing a newer less espensive or even entry level Cello vs. a very, very vintage masterfully set up instrument has to be like night and day. Even if not for playability there must be a drastic difference in sound between the two is there not?

Yeah, man, the cello I have right now is tolerable, but nothing special, and I've spent many hours working on sound production to make it match up to those better-crafted instruments owned by my peers. I've often been told that (given that apparently I make a good tone out of my mediocre cello) if I had a quality instrument that really just sang when you touched it, I would sound terrific.

But alas, as is the case with many musicians, money is always the deciding factor in one's inability to procure a quality instrument. The same goes for me, unfortunately.

As far as my differing reactions between cello sound and bass sound production: because bass relies partially on electronics to create the best tone in the instrument, I confess I'm a little new to this concept of sound production (as opposed to my expertise with creating a good natural, acoustic tone), and hence this thread with its question came into being. Also, there's the question of action/strings, and while this could be comparable to the cello's bridge/soundpost placement (and of course new strings sound great on a cello, same as anything), I'm once again somewhat unfamiliar with all of this.

One nice thing about playing bass after working on cello for years is that intonation on a fretted instrument is (by comparison) a walk in the park!

 

[bluesdogblues]

I think you have to try some basses you think good/best or at least better than yours now, then try to have the best bass you possibly can have,..and in the meantime make the best effort as possible from what you have now. You'll not wasting your time that way.

 

[arsie]

Does it have anything to do with your amp?

 

[cahir231]

Does it have anything to do with your amp?

It could have tons to do with it. In my most recent reply post, I mentioned my unfamiliarity and lack of knowledge/expertise in electronic sound production (EQing and the like).

It's true that when I go home (where my father owns a larger, slightly better amp), the bass sounds fuller...eh, but I'm not willing to stake the entire problem on it. Sure, I think the amp just exacerbates the problem, but it's not the whole deal.

 

[nocontrols]

Does having a "better" bass improve your playing? Yes, it does. But how do you define "better"?

Does having a "high end" bass improve your playing? It depends on whether or not "high end" goes hand-in-hand with your concept of "better".

In my case, it does not.

 

[arsie]

Yeah, you're not unfamiliar with musical instruments. Bass amps need to move lotsa air to sound good. So them 15w 8" driver "practice amps" do not do your bass justice. Particularly the B string on your 5 string.

The simple thing is, anything that encourages you to play more will make you play better. Whether its being in a band, an upcoming gig, a competition, a new bass, new pedals, new girlfriends, whatever.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I would actually say that when you are starting out a cruddy bass with mile high action will make you play better in the long run. I learned to play on a broken classical guitar. I had to work with the high action and tuning instability.
I also had a very good lesson from my uncle.
Don't press down on the strin with all your might. Press down with as little pressure as you can but still make a buzz free note.
This and playing tirelessly will make you a better player.
As far as playing goes, my hands will take a while to learn a new instrument, but after a while I can get the same runs and notes out of almost any bass. The exception being harmonics. This is the only area that higher end basses really slaughter the lower end ones.

 

[Pierce1026]

I think practicing more while amped is a good idea as well, I don't know if that's been mentioned or not. It made a huge difference in playing style when I started practicing more with an amp, more mellow, not trying so hard just to hear yourself play.

 

[benthughes]

It's been mentioned, a good amp will make a mediocre bass sound much better than you might think it should. I've owned any high end basses from Musicman to Sadowsky, Elrick, Roscoe, Zon ect. The other day I played a re-issue P-Bass through a Mesa Carbine M9 and it sounded awesome. My preference has gravitated toward a more old school sound recently but an amp can have a profound effect. Squire makes some pretty nice basses these days and a decent amp can make a decent bass sound killer.

 

[superdick2112]

+1 on looking at the amp as a major part of the sound. So many players are willing to cough up $3k for a nice bass, & then play it through a cruddy amp - something I'll never understand. I think a great amp is every bit as important as having a great bass - your tone will only be as good as the weakest component in your signal chain, whether it be your amp, bass, fx or even cables (and yes, good cables DO make a difference).

On to the bass question. One of my basses is an Ernie Ball/Music Man Stingray. I wanted a back-up bass for the Stingray's sound, so I bought an Ibanez ATK-700 for the low price of $300. After I set up, the Ibanez plays almost as good as the Stingray, and it sounds pretty good too - at least until you A/B it with the Stingray. Then you can really hear the difference that the extra $1000 buys you.
Bottom line - an inexpensive bass can usually be set-up to play very nicely, but nothing can compensate for crappy pickups or inferior electronics. Go to a good bass shop & play a really nice bass through an equally nice amp, and you will have your answer.

 

[capnsandwich]

Usually, a higher-end bass would be easier to set up since they're usually equipped with better hardware and higher quality wood. That said, a bass that is set up better would be easier to play so that you could concentrate on proper technique and phrasing as opposed to fighting your instrument. In all actuality though, practicing properly is what makes you a better player but a better instrument will inspire you to play more since you wouldn't be fighting as much. As always though, there is always the occasional exception, ie. the $200 Squier that plays like butter compared to some $3000 boutique instrument.

 

[cahir231]

Combining some comments from several of you folks:

The simple thing is, anything that encourages you to play more will make you play better. Whether its being in a band, an upcoming gig, a competition, a new bass, new pedals, new girlfriends, whatever.

Haha, definitely just making music is encouraging enough, though I agree that playing with others is so much more of a blast. Still, it's great to be able to have fun when solo in the practice room, even when you're doing the mundane (i.e., drilling scales).

I would actually say that when you are starting out a cruddy bass with mile high action will make you play better in the long run. I learned to play on a broken classical guitar. I had to work with the high action and tuning instability.

I've put the action to where I feel relatively comfortable doing normal fingerstyle playing. It's just when I try to do slap that I think a combination of misplaced action and all-around bad sound just makes it abominable to even try.

I think practicing more while amped is a good idea as well, I don't know if that's been mentioned or not. It made a huge difference in playing style when I started practicing more with an amp, more mellow, not trying so hard just to hear yourself play.

I don't have a problem with playing unplugged, as I've memorized the pitches by fret location by now. Still, I agree with you...there's a different feel. You have to touch the strings more gingerly and sensitively when plugged in to get the best articulation/resulting sound for the music you're playing.

I think a great amp is every bit as important as having a great bass - your tone will only be as good as the weakest component in your signal chain, whether it be your amp, bass, fx or even cables (and yes, good cables DO make a difference).

Thanks for this reminder! For my case, I think it's a combination of bass (with electronics) and amp. My cable is the one thing I know for sure is high-quality...it's my father's and he doesn't buy cheap crap (and the stuff he buys is subsequently my privilege and advantage to use).

 

[rayzak]

My "high end" basses don't help me play better(I agree, 99% is in the setup).
My "high end" golf clubs don't help me golf better.
And, My "high end" fishin' pole doesn't help me catch more fish.

But I sure like playing with them. Gives me no excuses.

 

[TheSuzie]

I don't have a problem with playing unplugged, as I've memorized the pitches by fret location by now. Still, I agree with you...there's a different feel. You have to touch the strings more gingerly and sensitively when plugged in to get the best articulation/resulting sound for the music you're playing.

You kind of contradict yourself above and bring out an important point. You may in fact have a problem that is made worse by practicing unplugged. As you well know, finding pitches is only one tiny aspect of technique. IMO sound production with an electric instrument really does need to be practiced amplified. If you are worried about disturbing people, get a headphone setup. I say this as someone who has made the mistake of practicing unamplified much too often. Practice time is too valuable not to get the best results possible.

You may well be ready for a better instrument but you still will not get the best results out of that instrument unless you work with an amp. You need to learn your electric instrument as an electric instrument including learning the nuances of the electronic controls on the bass and the amplifier. How those controls interact with each other and with your physical sound producing technique are the crux of the matter, the place that produces the tone that everyone actually hears. Nobody plays the electric bass in a performance situation, a jam or in a recording session with the instrument unplugged.

Best of Luck,
S

 

[AMJBASS]

Any instrument plays better when it has the proper set-up. If an inexpensive bass has a great set-up and a boutique has a poor set-up the inexpensive bass will be a better player overall.

This is the answer right here to so many threads and comments on TB. You hear so often of people going into guitar centers or similar and saying the bass wasn't good because it didn't play well, high action, etc, but that is bogus. Any bass can be set up to play its best. You may not like the shape of the neck, or the body, the balance, the radius of the fingerboard, but any bass can play well. Its wether or not it plays well for YOU.

As a general comment though, a high end bass can help you to play your best as it will be easier to do what you want on it. Easier to get a sound out of. That said I have played a TON of gigs on my Squier VM Jazz even with high end basses at home and it always sounds/feels good so go figure... I say just practice more