does it matter where (bass) guitars are made?

[mmon77]

It does not really matter to me, although it is nice to know that I'm supporting jobs in the US if I buy American. That being said, that's only because I'm American.

If I were to go strictly on quality, the truth is that anyone, anywhere can build a quality instrument. If Fender wanted, they could contract whoever builds Squier to build instruments with the same components, and same quality control as the American Fenders. They don't, because that would price the American Fenders out of business.

The Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, etc. factories will build whatever you want them to, and at whatever level of quality you specify. It's all in what the manufacturer wants to pay for, and their intended goal for their product line.

 

[Runnerman]

it is not the question WHERE they are producted. Its the question HOW they are produced.

I've seen this statement a few times in this thread and I agree it is 100% the truth.

If you have a high mass production in China, the production level nowerdays is very high everywhere.

I've also seen this and it is not a true statement. It's wishful thinking only. I've done business development in China. I've seen factories that you would not even want to walk in the doors of. A particular machining facility has particularly strong memories....a dark, filthy place with machines (without guarding) row upon row. One expected to find a few fingers in the corners. This is still going on today.

Another plant with distinct memories. They made electric motors for automotive and consumer products. part of the plant was indeed very modern, clean and well lit, with plenty of automation and decent quality control. Another part of the plant had row-upon-row single stations where people sat and built the complete motor manually. The most striking part of the visit was when the shift changed. I happened to be walking in an open area between buildings. As the first shift left and the second came in, I noticed that the majority of them were children probably between 10-16 years of age. I made a comment to my guide and translator, there were some hasty Chinese words spoken and I was quickly ushered away from the area. Bottom line was these kids were returning from their schooling and going to work.

Mass produced instruments will be certainly consistent but potentially subject to more flaws. It's important to note that they still require a modicum of craftsmenship as well. This is often the missing piece. Care and attention from a luthier is different than a rice paddy worker simply installing something into a hole. High quality materials versus uncured woods. As many have said, a quality instrument can be made if the company producing it decides to do it in a quality fashion with sufficient attention to detail...the "how its made". Fender is a good example of trying to do it right. Sounds like Ibanez is too.

I prefer USA made instruments but don't own them exclusively. I also recognize that the reason we still have fantastic USA made instruments from Fender, EBMM, G&L, etc. is because of their business model to build the majority of products with lower price point overseas. Those products financially support the overall business and allow for continued development and production of US instruments. The same is true for German and Japanese brands.

 

[MoeTown1986]

Location doesn't matter. What matters is how tight of tolerances the CNC machines and Quality Control departments are holding. I believe that's where price differences tend to step in. You pay for "quality" aka, tight tolerances and near flawless builds.

 

[gumbynotpokey]

If a bass is made in Tom Clement's back yard shed, it's a good bass. Yes, the location of the build process matters.

 

[mmon77]

You pay for "quality" aka, tight tolerances and near flawless builds.

Sadly, this isn't always the case. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence on this site of people who've ditched their USA made Fender for an MIM, or MIJ because the quality wasn't there.

For most people, it's about value. If you're spending $1200 for an instrument, the quality needs to be quite a bit better than a $500 instrument, or the value isn't there.

 

[Tom Bomb]

The only nation that consistently builds top quality, no compromise stuff is Japan. But it's not cheap like it used to be, quite the opposite.

I don't want to say the "only nation" as my Canadian axe is pretty trick too. But +1. I admire Japanese workmanship. I'd say the governing factor, no matter where the work is done, is pride in workmanship. Applied knowledge and experience figure highly. Japanese firms, particularly those producing the better quality instruments, like Fujigen Gakki, take this very seriously.

Price is one indicator. It's also, hopefully, an indication that the staff are being looked after.

I much prefer to buy instruments from countries with a high regard for workplace safety and human rights. That being said, I do not exclusively do so.

Me too I have a Chinese Japanese hybrid that ticks all the boxes. I have very little knowledge of what went into its construction. That would depend on the brand owner, Bacchus. And they've got a pretty good track record. I think it was assembled in Japan.

Although it is mostly simple wood construction, with computer aided design, computer aided sound analytics, and manufacturing techniques learned in the last 50 years the industry is producing basses at much less the cost but much more sophisticated than we used in the 70's.

+1. There's a huge benefit with these machines. Watching youtube videos from Taylor Guitars on their current manufacturing processes, it becomes blatantly obvious - the guess work can almost entirely be eliminated All that's left then is to determine the specific mix and quality of wood and materials - not an insignificant factor. Again, pride is the key.

Is there any way to know the conditions of each shop where a bass was made? I don't want to buy a sweatshop bass

Price is a pretty good indicator though not always. Do some research or go and check it all out for yourself. It sometimes pays dividends

 

[micguy]

No, what matters to you is WHO made your bass. Which is as it should be.

Fair enough - I'll buy that. Then again, if I were making basses on a production line somewhere, I wouldn't be able to devote the time to doing things the way I do, so place has some impact.

 

[Eilif]

Sadly, this isn't always the case. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence on this site of people who've ditched their USA made Fender for an MIM, or MIJ because the quality wasn't there.

This is the rub isn't it?
As other countries improve their build quality and purchase machines with higher tolerances, the simple "quality" argument begins to show cracks. I still say that generally USA made instruments tend to be better, but it's not nearly the hard rule that it once was back in the day when USA and Japan were the main sources for higher quality electric basses.

In a situation like Fender it sometimes seems like the main reason the USA basses are better is simply because they choose to make their better-featured instruments in this particular country.

That said, there are still many ways to captitalize on being an "American" company even beyond simply "please buy American". Smaller builders can still trade on the improved buying, customizing and servicing experience of customers being able to deal directly with the builders. This is what attracted me to companies/builders like Wender, Carlo, Milkman, Melbert and Lowdown bass.

Consider also the experience of a medium sized company like Lakland. They make the majority of their instruments overseas and do so at high quality. At the same time, they've pulled their domestic bass production in-house in a way that few instrument companies have. As opposed to the past, now necks and bodies are built, electroinics produced and even finish work is done in-house, all things that are often farmed out by domestic builders! In this way they capitalize on their reputation for quality and the desire of many to have an instrument that is unique and unified. It also allows them to more quickly respond to market demands of their USA instruments since they're not dependent on other suppliers.

 

[Band Mom]

Probably just adding my opinion to the prevailing opinion here, but yeah, I'd agree that it comes down to QC, and even then simply labeling an axe as "US Made" doesn't strictly place the instrument in the better category. In addition, I'd say the largest difference in quality is just the components used to build an instrument to meet a particular price point.

Assuming all QC was created equal (for the sake of argument), build materials are the only indicator of quality to me. I just grabbed a backup G&L Trib bass this week that is the same model as my main US bass. The difference in fit an finish was so small that I'm willing to concede that it is probably just psychological. Where I *could* tell the difference was in a simple A/B using the same signal chain. And I would have a hard time in this case saying that one was "better", just "different".

So does it matter where it's made? Yes, but only because the current production paradigm focuses on cheaper component overseas instruments vs. higher quality component US instruments. If the better component instruments were made overseas, we'd probably be arguing this same thing from the opposite direction.

 

[Funkinthetrunk]

For moral comfort and self-preservation though I've come to the decision that I'll do my very best to avoid funding people/countries with a certain predominant "belief" or "culture".

So I take it that you're this picky about where your cell phone, computer and tv is made too?

 

[dukeorock]

My 3 main basses are US made ('76 P bass, Gretsch SpectraSonic and Drake custom). A lot of other basses have come and gone for various reasons. Not sure that proves anything, but that's how it came out in the wash for me.

Pickups made on an assembly line can be inconsistent, but it'll get boxed up anyway and fingers crossed, you won't know the difference. That ain't gonna happen at Nordstrand.

Just this week I grabbed an Epiphone Embassy Pro. $399, no tax, free shipping. I wanted to try one and the only one available new is made in China. It may turn out to be an ok bass for all I know, but the setup and attention to detail is comically off the mark. I also knew this going in. Should I grow attached to this bass, it will no longer be a $399 bass. Better pickups, tuners, etc., and before you know it, I'm playing a $900, $399 bass.

By contrast, my Drake custom was made FOR ME, by a single craftsman in Iowa. The attention to detail is staggering, from the wood selection to the final setup. A small boutique dude can't afford to send an expensive bass out the door that's anything less than perfect. The returns/repairs would ruin him.

At the end of the day one company had a goal of figuring out how to make the best instrument possible and the other had the goal of seeing how many they could get out the door in a day.

 

[flashgod]

I've seen this statement a few times in this thread and I agree it is 100% the truth.



I've also seen this and it is not a true statement. It's wishful thinking only. I've done business development in China. I've seen factories that you would not even want to walk in the doors of. A particular machining facility has particularly strong memories....a dark, filthy place with machines (without guarding) row upon row. One expected to find a few fingers in the corners. This is still going on today.

Another plant with distinct memories. They made electric motors for automotive and consumer products. part of the plant was indeed very modern, clean and well lit, with plenty of automation and decent quality control. Another part of the plant had row-upon-row single stations where people sat and built the complete motor manually. The most striking part of the visit was when the shift changed. I happened to be walking in an open area between buildings. As the first shift left and the second came in, I noticed that the majority of them were children probably between 10-16 years of age. I made a comment to my guide and translator, there were some hasty Chinese words spoken and I was quickly ushered away from the area. Bottom line was these kids were returning from their schooling and going to work.

Mass produced instruments will be certainly consistent but potentially subject to more flaws. It's important to note that they still require a modicum of craftsmenship as well. This is often the missing piece. Care and attention from a luthier is different than a rice paddy worker simply installing something into a hole. High quality materials versus uncured woods. As many have said, a quality instrument can be made if the company producing it decides to do it in a quality fashion with sufficient attention to detail...the "how its made". Fender is a good example of trying to do it right. Sounds like Ibanez is too.

I prefer USA made instruments but don't own them exclusively. I also recognize that the reason we still have fantastic USA made instruments from Fender, EBMM, G&L, etc. is because of their business model to build the majority of products with lower price point overseas. Those products financially support the overall business and allow for continued development and production of US instruments. The same is true for German and Japanese brands.

Somehow I worried, that the overall working conditions in China are as wose as in your report.
Only thing I can say about it, that it is in responsibility of the clients, in our case the big instrument producer Fender, Musicman, Gibson, etc. to care about these conditions.
They have the power to select their suppliers and can demand a certain quality, safety and know how standard, at least the minimum standards provided in their own factories.

 

[Ric5]

What matters is the quality of parts and materials, the quality of workmanship, and the quality control.

 

[StayLow]

So I take it that you're this picky about where your cell phone, computer and tv is made too?

I don't watch tv, and I wasn't referring to China.

 

[dwm74]

A few years ago on this forum somebody wrote that the MIM Fenders were made by Mexicans in Mexico and the MIA's were made in Mexicans in America. There is a lot of truth to that statement. Yes, the hardware and other things are of higher quality on the MIAs but the actual construction processes and labor are virtually identical. Pride on one's work is not defined by a line on a map. As was mentioned earlier, it's all in the QC.

Kind of like a Chevy truck I had which was made in Mexico and Canada, but my Nissan was made in Tennessee/Mississippi...

 

[phillybass101]

Yes and no. Matters when it's someone else's Bass. Doesn't matter if it's mine LOL!!!

 

[Skeptismo]

It's definitely an interesting question, because there are some intersecting ideas and social trends that we can observe at play in it. Consumerism as a socioeconomic paradigm, nationalism, the desire to emulate musicians we admire, nostalgia, and aesthetics are all in the mix to varying degrees.
For my part, I don't really care where an item produced. I'm concerned about an instrument that sounds, feels, and looks good, while matching my budget. If I had the disposable income to spend on a custom made instrument, it still wouldn't matter where it was produced, provided it met those other qualities.

I thought this topic was interesting enough to seek a little more info on, and found this website. Some of you might care to see how nationalized branding stacks up internationally according to this set of stats. Statista - The Statistics Portal

 

[JRA]

I thought this topic was interesting enough to seek a little more info on, and found this website. Some of you might care to see how nationalized branding stacks up internationally according to this set of stats. Statista - The Statistics Portal

danke schoen!

 

[Herrick]

I voted not at all.

 

[funkymonk13]

And just to point out, USA is not really that advanced a country.

USA got a huge illiteracy rate, and their educational system is somewhat behind the standards that are to be found in most European countries, as example.

Lol wut??
Genuinely cant tell if you're being sarcastic but the US doesnt have a huge illiteracy rate; not sure where you pulled out that statistic. As for not being advanced, thats a complicated statement. Theres a lot of economic inequality and there are parts in the country where technology is def behind. As a whole? not really. Its more of a choice here. You can live in the mountains w/o a cellphone or wifi and thats fine; You can also live in the Silicon Valley, one of the most important tech hubs in the world, and have access to all the new technology.

Agree with education. Its a shame we dont value it as much as we should.