Does it REALLY make a difference?

[KohanMike]

I have a 25 bass and 9 ukulele collection only because of the looks of each. I too find that there's no way to distinguish the difference between gear in a live setting. The only time I decide which bass to bring is if the weather is humid, I don't choose one of my bass ukes with poly strings, I bring one with flatwound metal strings.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think everyone so far is overlooking the most important reason why artists and technicians of any type obsess over equipment. DETAILS MATTER. Obviously, no one can discern scale length or fingerboard wood from sound alone. However...bass wood plus neck type plus bridge plus pickups plus amp plus cab plus strings, etc...all ADD UP to your sound. It isnt one of those things individually, it's the whole package.

All of the best artists and craftsmen I have known are extremely detail-oriented. A good painter knows he needs a good brush AND good technique to deliver a pleasing result in a reasonable time frame. By the same token, a bassist (should) understand that they need plenty of practice, AND suitable gear, to make the band sound its best.

Besides that, its important to remember that Talkbass is a gear forum as much as anything else- there are tons of members who are collectors and technicians first, rather than performers. Theres nothing wrong with that, it just helps keep to keep perspective.

This.

Perspective is what is usually lacking here. Details are pinpointed and then diminished as if that really proves something. It used to be frustrating for me to read stuff like this... how could people really miss the big picture? Instead there's an army of folks who seem to bask in telling others what doesn't matter.

And if you push back on that the first cries are typically of elitism or arrogance or worse. Because everyone has the same skill level , ears and intent.


There are things I like and things I don't care for. I've noticed correlations but I am also not saying that exceptions can't happen. Here's the funny thing... I have three basses with a particular body wood that I don't normally care for. These three happen to work for me even though they share some sonic tendencies with other basses that haven't. They happen to be far more robust tonally which is why I like them. There are people who have no qualms about telling me those characteristics can't be due to the wood. They must be something else. Why?

Are there any other components of the musical experience besides sound? You wouldnt know that from most comments. A thing which continues to make me shake my head. I could be holding the greatest sounding bass ever but if i hate the way it feels, what good is it? You'd think people ONLY listen to bass and don't actually touch them. It's why I tend to stay away from recorded comparisons... they're largely pointless because I have no idea what effect the player's sonic baggage is having on what I'm hearing. I need to hear me using it, not someone else.

For the folks who can't tell the difference live in much of anything congrats... you just got off real cheap. You can likely bring most anything and use it and be happy. My needs are specific to me and yeah, I can tell the difference when >>>I<<< am playing my 78 Jazz over my 75 Reissue. Or one of my Ash basses over a Mahogany one. I notice when my necks move in the slightest and I adjust them. In fact these are more than obvious to me but I don't expect everyone else to hear or feel exactly what I do nor do I care if they do. i do... that's what really matters.

So to the folks who can't hear different tones or notice one amp struggling where another doesn't or can't hear beyond 4khz or can't hear the coloration of one amp that isn't there with another, cool. I'm glad I notice the things that I do, I'm glad I spent the time on my instruments to notice what they do in my hands and can get the sounds I want quickly and easily, gig in and gig out with my gear.

This just seems to amount to "I can't tell the difference.. who's with me?".

Really?

 

[Brad Johnson]

BTW the audience doesn't care isn't a good excuse but look at how many run with it anyway. I've gotten plenty of feedback that goes against that. Maybe it's not the audience that doesn't care...

 

[Brad Johnson]

I guess it depends on who we’re talking about. As a non-bass playing listener or audience member , I’d say no, not at all. The focus is on the song and overall appeal of the song. As a bass player maybe. If the bass is so muddled that it can’t be appreciated , then I think there’s a problem , but in general if you can hear the bass clearly and it comes through with authority, that’s all that matters to me.

I've had good conversations with non-musician audience members who actually ask more incisive questions than many musicians. They might notice when I soloed the bridge pickup, did a palm mute, etc. Underestimating your audience is a sucker's bet. ijs

 

[rollie 55]

As far as I'm concerned, this is accurate. I know for a fact that I don't hear a difference in sound quality between 34", 32" and 30" basses because I own examples of all of them. Of course, if every one is a different brand and model of bass, "no difference" means "other than the difference inherent in a different brand and model of bass."

You wouldn't expect my 34" '63 P to sound like my 32" hollowbody Gretsch 5123, and neither would sound like my 30" '64 Gibson EB-0 or my chambered 30" Gretsch Thunderjet. But I defy anyone to identify a difference in scale length based on the sound.

I can hear a difference between old flats of various types and new Chromes, but when the Chromes are 5+ years old, I really don't. I'm not a rounds player, and I don't change strings unless they break. I have put tapewound strings on one modified Gretsch short scale because even flats were too bright...but that was specific to that bass.

Rosewood vs. maple? Agreed. NO difference in sound.

Amps? I don't obsess over amps, I just set them to give me a sound that's pleasing for the environment. For performance I have a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.2 and a Fender Bassman 100 V3. I like the way each sounds, but I do note that the Bassman combo has a definite "old school" sound bias built in. That's fine with me, as I'm an old school player.

Perhaps I'm in the minority too, but I'm happy about it. I simply set up a bass and amp to sound pleasing to me, and then I play them. Since 1967, no one has ever complained about that approach.

I totally agree

 

[Wisebass]

Hi sedan_dad

not in the real world. Not to me anyways.

In the real world sound (ore tone or timbre) matters a lot more than in your bedroom!

Sound is influenced by a lot of details. Your technique and your equipment have to be right!

Certain sounds are easier to get with bass A others are easier to get with bass B.

And some sounds are just impossible to get with bass C!


This leads us to the most importent question:

a giant bass marimba.

Which is the best giant bass marimba for metal!


greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[BwanaDust]

If you cannot hear the difference between a small combo and a 410 or 810 or dual 15s, or tube vs solid state. You have my condolences.

 

[nilorius]

I it's truth then we all are big fulls.

 

[bbh]

I must be in the minority. When I’m playing in a band setting, I for one, can’t hear the difference between amp brands for the most part. Nor do I hear much of a difference between scale length of basses. I can hear the difference between Rotosounds and Chromes at lower volumes. But when you’re pushing it ,the difference diminishes. Rosewood and Maple boards? You’re joking, right?. Stock picks vs after market? Nope. These all might make a difference if you’re sitting in your bedroom , playing along at low volume to your favorite tunes but not in the real world. Not to me anyways.

Well in that case, I’d guess a lot of things don’t bother you that plague others. That could be a plus. That’s why we chase the “best” sound that resides in our heads or imagination.
Personally I can tell the difference on all mentioned but my ear is quite sensitive to sounds and tones, possibly learned from studio work or maybe is a natural phenom. Sometimes it’s detrimental and must be ignored as you can do.
There’s nothing wrong about that and thanks for your honesty.

 

[40Hz]

I’m giving up my valuable time to show up and play

Should we take that to mean you’re not getting paid?

If you’re getting paid you’re not “giving up” anything. You’re providing a service and being financially compensated for it. It’s not like you’re not doing anybody a favor.

 

[40Hz]

Besides that, its important to remember that Talkbass is a gear forum as much as anything else- there are tons of members who are collectors and technicians first, rather than performers. Theres nothing wrong with that, it just helps keep to keep perspective.

The TB nutshell in a nutshell.

 

[brianrost]

6 pages later...

Just because one person can't tell the difference between two rigs on stage doesn't mean that noone else can.

I can hear huge differences between amps on stage. I can also hear differences between woods and pickups (on otherwise similar instruments). Strings, not so much other than rounds vs. flats is quite obvious.

That doesn't mean other gear isn't good enough. I've done plenty of gigs with provided backlines so have used a lot of combinations of basses, amps and cabs over the years. With DB amp and cab tonal differences are even more obvious than they are with BG...feedback problems, ugly tone that can't be EQed away, etc. I have said it before...any amp rig that works well with DB will work well with BG but not vice versa.

 

[Hounddog409]

I must be in the minority. When I’m playing in a band setting, I for one, can’t hear the difference between amp brands for the most part. Nor do I hear much of a difference between scale length of basses. I can hear the difference between Rotosounds and Chromes at lower volumes. But when you’re pushing it ,the difference diminishes. Rosewood and Maple boards? You’re joking, right?. Stock picks vs after market? Nope. These all might make a difference if you’re sitting in your bedroom , playing along at low volume to your favorite tunes but not in the real world. Not to me anyways.

100% correct

 

[Kenova]

When you’re in a studio you can hear SOME of the differences but in a live setting I can hardly hear rounds/flats difference.

 

[Fun With Dirt]

To be honest, you can't hear the amp brand regardless. You hear a musician's settings on a certain amp. It can sound similar to or WILDLY different than the next person with the exact same setup. Hell, it can sound wildly different the next time you see that same musician if they've gone and fiddled with it. I am not at all saying that the amp doesn't matter... but I am saying it has more to do with musician working with the amp than the amp itself. Kind of like having the fastest car in the world is useless in the hands of someone that's never driven before. ...but in the hands of a very experienced race driver, it can be magic. ...inversely, give that experienced driver one of the most pedestrian cars in the world and they'll surprise you with what they can make that car do. Dial up a tone. Keep working it until it is right. In my case, I knew I liked true biamped rigs. I'd have a bass amp for my lows and a guitar amp for my overdriven highs. It was miserable to carry around but it sounded awesome. Fast forward to now, I do the same thing with a parallel processing preamp in the Darkglass X7. These days, I don't shop for brand. I shop for feature sets. If it has the right features, I am good. I can get it to do what I want.

 

[bobdabilder]

Your account will be banned within the hour.

I must be in the minority. When I’m playing in a band setting, I for one, can’t hear the difference between amp brands for the most part. Nor do I hear much of a difference between scale length of basses. I can hear the difference between Rotosounds and Chromes at lower volumes. But when you’re pushing it ,the difference diminishes. Rosewood and Maple boards? You’re joking, right?. Stock picks vs after market? Nope. These all might make a difference if you’re sitting in your bedroom , playing along at low volume to your favorite tunes but not in the real world. Not to me anyways.

 

[fishdreams]

So what is that, the 'real world'? For example, my 'real world' tends to be small-ish performing spaces where I'd play in duo setting with an un-amplified bassoon, in front of an audience that sits down, without a bar in the background, listening in silence (sometimes the lights are switched off too, in order to maximize focus on the aural aspect of the performance) . In this real world, the subtleties I hear in my bedroom are actually amplified to nth degree on stage. The challenge I often run into is a sometimes less-than-desirable amplification situation Ican't control, but being able to work with that is that is an art too. And when I hear some of NY's top jazz piano talent being forced to play - and he did it with a smile - on the most horrendously out-of-tune missing-strings upright you've ever heard (the owner, who runs a regular jazz series, gave as an excuse for not having the piano restored, then tuned, that "it was her grandfather's, and a legacy piece"), we as bass guitarists actually get off pretty good in terms of what we can and can't control.

Everybody's real world is different. What is your real world?

 

[mmbass21]

I must be in the minority. When I’m playing in a band setting, I for one, can’t hear the difference between amp brands for the most part. Nor do I hear much of a difference between scale length of basses. I can hear the difference between Rotosounds and Chromes at lower volumes. But when you’re pushing it ,the difference diminishes. Rosewood and Maple boards? You’re joking, right?. Stock picks vs after market? Nope. These all might make a difference if you’re sitting in your bedroom , playing along at low volume to your favorite tunes but not in the real world. Not to me anyways.

I can agree with you on some of this especially tonewoods. However I always wear ear protection regardless of the situation outside of my home practice so I can hear every nuance of my tone that I want to listen for. To the general member of the audience or even other bandmates you're right, most of it doesn't matter at all.

Over the last few years I've really focused on how I sit in the mix and I've had amps/basses struggle with that and I've moved on from them. Collectively everything you've said is what makes up how you sit in a mix so it can matter quite a bit. It took me a long time to realize how you sit in the mix is one of the most important parts of playing live and not enough players focus on this. Plus it's our comfort as players, and when you're comfortable with whatever gear you're using you play better, for me at least.

 

[Pimpernel Smith]

I think the tone knob on my Jack Casady bass takes care of any tone changes I will need.

 

[Mike Sorr]

I definitely agree that the average listener won't know or care what equipment you are using, however, in my experience, they will be able to appreciate when the tone is a better fit for the mix within the band. They won't care if you're playing a 2x4 as long as it sounds good. If it sounds like trash they will, though.

Maybe. I saw a band this weekend at a local beach bar playing popular covers and they were TERRIBLE! The bass players tone was really harsh, and he didn't even bother to learn the bass lines on a lot of the songs. In this case it wasn't a matter of equipment. His gear was top of the line. But the point is that the audience didn't care. They were singing and dancing and having a great time because they knew the songs. As long as the band and the singer were in tune, it almost didn't matter...except to the one bass player in the crowd, me, who couldn't believe they were getting away with it.