This is kinda the definition that I was using too. Chalk it up to my math and computer training.
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Does logic matter if it doesn't change the way I live?
- Thread starter slobake
- Start date
If the definition of logic is that it is moldable ,shapeable and can be adapted to specific situations.....
Then it could be easy identified as 'perceived logic"........in other words " I perceive my choice to be logical...therefor it is in my estimation".
Comparing logic to risk/reward may be illogical...........because often risk/reward is just gambling on an outcome.....
Feats of bravery are almost always a gamble...or "calculated risk". But just because the risk was calculated doesn't mean it was logical.
Then it could be easy identified as 'perceived logic"........in other words " I perceive my choice to be logical...therefor it is in my estimation".
Comparing logic to risk/reward may be illogical...........because often risk/reward is just gambling on an outcome.....
Feats of bravery are almost always a gamble...or "calculated risk". But just because the risk was calculated doesn't mean it was logical.
Someone posted this on FB about why we make bad decisions. It seems appropriate.
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Invalid Link Removed
I defined logic as being about whether two or more assertions are consistent with one another. There's more to it, if you dig deeply into the study of logic, but I think my definition is precise enough for a general discussion.
Now, if you want to define logic as some set of rules to live by, such that no two people will ever disagree on what is the "logical action," well, such a thing probably can't exist.
"Our brains were evolved for a very different world than the one in which we are living".
Indeed.
INTP:- Really? How so?
Humans are 100% responsible for the conditions in which we live today (other than forces of nature and weather), using the brain they evolved with........this going back to the time man first crawled out of the 'soup'.
(Fdeck:- just because two or more assertions are consistent doesn't make them logical at all......).
Humans are 100% responsible for the conditions in which we live today (other than forces of nature and weather), using the brain they evolved with........this going back to the time man first crawled out of the 'soup'.
(Fdeck:- just because two or more assertions are consistent doesn't make them logical at all......).
Here's how Daniel Goleman explains the novel challenge in the world today, for us, and our wonky Pleistocene noggins.
More 'Anthropocene Thinking' from Goleman here, if you're interested.
Seems logical
More 'Anthropocene Thinking' from Goleman here, if you're interested.
It's OK if we agree to disagree.
It may be okay, but that doesn't change that you're right and ZenG is confused.
INTP:_ yes....I'm serious......
"our brains were evolved for a very different world than the one in which we are living".....
It's as if this statement by it's author is an attempted blanket apology on behalf of mankind to address the perceived mess that modern humankind is in.
In other words:- "it's not really our fault the way things are...we weren't supposed to be like this".
However the author admits that we "evolved".
Apparently therefor we are mutants that are incorrectly evolving....and it's not our fault, it's evolution.
If evolution is survival of the fittest then it seems by his logic that we are doomed to failure.....(not the first time that a species has failed to evolve and adapt correctly).
According to his thinking....man is not the master of his fate and captain of his soul, no, it's that damned evolutionary condition and there's nothing you could have done about it....
Not buying that.
Everything humans have done is based on how they thought and what decisions were made at the time throughout human history.
Apparently we've spent thousands of years fighting our naturally evolved tendencies to live in a world that we could have...
The author's statement is typically human.......that being to portray ourselves as better than we are collectively and historically....
If we WERE better collectively...we would BE better collectively........but we aren't and weren't.
"our brains were evolved for a very different world than the one in which we are living".....
It's as if this statement by it's author is an attempted blanket apology on behalf of mankind to address the perceived mess that modern humankind is in.
In other words:- "it's not really our fault the way things are...we weren't supposed to be like this".
However the author admits that we "evolved".
Apparently therefor we are mutants that are incorrectly evolving....and it's not our fault, it's evolution.
If evolution is survival of the fittest then it seems by his logic that we are doomed to failure.....(not the first time that a species has failed to evolve and adapt correctly).
According to his thinking....man is not the master of his fate and captain of his soul, no, it's that damned evolutionary condition and there's nothing you could have done about it....
Not buying that.
Everything humans have done is based on how they thought and what decisions were made at the time throughout human history.
Apparently we've spent thousands of years fighting our naturally evolved tendencies to live in a world that we could have...
The author's statement is typically human.......that being to portray ourselves as better than we are collectively and historically....
If we WERE better collectively...we would BE better collectively........but we aren't and weren't.
Logic is logic.
Something is either logical or it isn't.
Explanations such as 'this is a very deep issue and you need to thoroughly understand the facts about logic because it boggles the mind of even the most learned academics' is bunk.
You could make the same statement about a glass of water......" until you thoroughly understand the deep meaning of water you will never grasp it's concept".
No.
It's a glass of water.
Something is either logical or it isn't.
Explanations such as 'this is a very deep issue and you need to thoroughly understand the facts about logic because it boggles the mind of even the most learned academics' is bunk.
You could make the same statement about a glass of water......" until you thoroughly understand the deep meaning of water you will never grasp it's concept".
No.
It's a glass of water.
This post creates an interpretation of the quote, and then a refutation of that interpretation. Intentionally or accidentally, this is a straw man.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Ever been out-thought by a bird? I have. I think.
One of the most unusual events in my life took place in our courtyard one Spring afternoon, under one of my trees - a real feature for us because it's always been a haven for the local bird-life. On this day, I was visited by a family of currawongs. Not our usual guests.
I was alerted because of their singing and ventured out to take a look. Sure enough, there they were. One big one in particular sat ten feet away on a limb and continued to sing. Our eyes met and we shared the space for a few minutes. Four or five other curawongs milled about in the upper branches - all singing. Then, with a ruffle of feathers, and a beating of big black wings, they were gone.
I was a little spooked by the experience. They were, as I said, not regular guests, these currawongs. Big, black, crow-like birds, they're a bit creepy sometimes. I'm a lover of birds so I'd say that, although they aren't my favorites, I've never had any genuine reason to think there's anything about them that's malevolent in any way. They have a bad rep though. Most of you would understand this. At worst, I've looked upon them as big, dopey, loping clowns. This is no longer my opinion. A few minutes later, they were back in the tree.
They were no longer singing and they didn't stay long. To my amazement, they bombed my courtyard with berries. In a frenzy, one beak after another opened and numerous little black berries were released. I watched, stunned and completely bewildered as the berries fell into the mulch at my feet.
These birds were dropping from their mouths, the very food that sustained them. And, it was no accident. They had flown away, clearly, with hindsight, to some trees in the vicinity that were in fruit. Upon harvesting those berries, they'd made a bee line for my courtyard and dropped their payload. No act could have been more purposeful.
I knew these berries as being from the camphor laurels, environmental weeds, prolific fruiters, from across the way. My first thought was, 'Man! these pesky birds are planting weeds in my courtyard.' It's impossible to see it any differently. But I missed the logic.
To these amazing birds, it wasn't weeds they were planting. It was a future food source. I've thought long and hard about this and I swear what I witnessed was a propagation. These birdbrains were generating a food source for themselves, and for others, and it was ritualized and intentional.
Before I knew it, I was gathering berries. I wasn't going to allow my courtyard to become overgrown with huge trees that, by their very nature, would threaten all the native ecosystems and the diversity of our region.
That day, two different and profoundly exotic logics collided, head on, although I failed at first to notice. I am now forever humbled by the experience. These little black birds proved beyond doubt, to me, that they have an incredible intelligence. Who could argue that what they were doing was illogical, or that what I did in response was illogical? The argument is that they were two different logics. Both, perhaps, of great merit.
I take comfort because, logically, they would've repeated this behavior elsewhere and doubtless now have their lashings of berries for themselves and their offspring, to sustain them into the future. I hope so. I take comfort because they may actually be better at this than us. We still have many lessons to learn. Humbled is the right word. They saw me collect their berries and they've never come back for a second try. What was, to me, a vile weed was, to them, their best plan for a futures market, replete with more juicy fruit than anyone could ever once have possibly imagined.
The way forward for us, all creatures of blood and bone, is to remove the need for the weed, for the benefit and the glory of all life on earth. This logic - logic beyond any clear and present danger - is, let's call it 'future logic.'
We may be the only creatures who can think in these terms; there can be food and no weeds; there can be weeds and no harm; there can never be harm without hurt. The best human logic is what we need.
One of the most unusual events in my life took place in our courtyard one Spring afternoon, under one of my trees - a real feature for us because it's always been a haven for the local bird-life. On this day, I was visited by a family of currawongs. Not our usual guests.
I was alerted because of their singing and ventured out to take a look. Sure enough, there they were. One big one in particular sat ten feet away on a limb and continued to sing. Our eyes met and we shared the space for a few minutes. Four or five other curawongs milled about in the upper branches - all singing. Then, with a ruffle of feathers, and a beating of big black wings, they were gone.
I was a little spooked by the experience. They were, as I said, not regular guests, these currawongs. Big, black, crow-like birds, they're a bit creepy sometimes. I'm a lover of birds so I'd say that, although they aren't my favorites, I've never had any genuine reason to think there's anything about them that's malevolent in any way. They have a bad rep though. Most of you would understand this. At worst, I've looked upon them as big, dopey, loping clowns. This is no longer my opinion. A few minutes later, they were back in the tree.
They were no longer singing and they didn't stay long. To my amazement, they bombed my courtyard with berries. In a frenzy, one beak after another opened and numerous little black berries were released. I watched, stunned and completely bewildered as the berries fell into the mulch at my feet.
These birds were dropping from their mouths, the very food that sustained them. And, it was no accident. They had flown away, clearly, with hindsight, to some trees in the vicinity that were in fruit. Upon harvesting those berries, they'd made a bee line for my courtyard and dropped their payload. No act could have been more purposeful.
I knew these berries as being from the camphor laurels, environmental weeds, prolific fruiters, from across the way. My first thought was, 'Man! these pesky birds are planting weeds in my courtyard.' It's impossible to see it any differently. But I missed the logic.
To these amazing birds, it wasn't weeds they were planting. It was a future food source. I've thought long and hard about this and I swear what I witnessed was a propagation. These birdbrains were generating a food source for themselves, and for others, and it was ritualized and intentional.
Before I knew it, I was gathering berries. I wasn't going to allow my courtyard to become overgrown with huge trees that, by their very nature, would threaten all the native ecosystems and the diversity of our region.
That day, two different and profoundly exotic logics collided, head on, although I failed at first to notice. I am now forever humbled by the experience. These little black birds proved beyond doubt, to me, that they have an incredible intelligence. Who could argue that what they were doing was illogical, or that what I did in response was illogical? The argument is that they were two different logics. Both, perhaps, of great merit.
I take comfort because, logically, they would've repeated this behavior elsewhere and doubtless now have their lashings of berries for themselves and their offspring, to sustain them into the future. I hope so. I take comfort because they may actually be better at this than us. We still have many lessons to learn. Humbled is the right word. They saw me collect their berries and they've never come back for a second try. What was, to me, a vile weed was, to them, their best plan for a futures market, replete with more juicy fruit than anyone could ever once have possibly imagined.
The way forward for us, all creatures of blood and bone, is to remove the need for the weed, for the benefit and the glory of all life on earth. This logic - logic beyond any clear and present danger - is, let's call it 'future logic.'
We may be the only creatures who can think in these terms; there can be food and no weeds; there can be weeds and no harm; there can never be harm without hurt. The best human logic is what we need.
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On a tangent... it occurs to me that most important decisions are clouded by a couple of issues:
1. Incomplete, or even contradictory information, including information from inadvertently or deliberately biased sources
2. Cost of delay creates a diminishing return on waiting for complete information to emerge
I encounter these situation all the time in business.
1. Incomplete, or even contradictory information, including information from inadvertently or deliberately biased sources
2. Cost of delay creates a diminishing return on waiting for complete information to emerge
I encounter these situation all the time in business.
If your significant other asks "Does this outfit make me look fat?" What is the logical answer?
