Does my guitarist have a problem? *rant/need help*

[jazzbass_5]

Start a project with your ex DT fanboy friend.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

So here`s the deal as it stands at the moment - We`ve so far written 6 originals (3 of which are really solid songs, IMHO) and we are scheduled to record a demo Jan. 4th, 5th, and 6th at a friends studio for free (aka, we`ll probably give him $100 and a case of his favorite beer). Anyways, things are seemingly going better now but who knows how long it`ll last - especially after we`ve recorded the demo. I figure that regardless of what happens I`ll just stay on board for now and get the demo done so that I have some good recordings of myself for potential future promotion.

 

[steveksux]

Lots of younger players mistake someone who can play a lot of notes with a "good player". The guy sounds like he can't get any transitions tight. To me, that's not the sign of a good musician. Good musicians are not so wrapped up in their own noodling that they lose the structure of the song.

Great musicians know what they can do, more importantly, what they can't quite do. They don't spend all day on the bleeding edge, they are good enough that they can dial it back to a comfortable level, still sound great, and make it sound effortless. They push the envelope when they practice, and respect their limitations when they perform. And still sound amazing when they're going at 80%.

The mediocre players who think they are great are trying to go 110% all the time. As they struggle at the edge of their abilities, their tempo drifts all over the map. They get lost.

Regarding guys with perfect pitch. Who cares. Let them verify the rest of your tuners. Once the tuners are calibrated to their satisfaction, tune up with them. Problem solved.

Randy

 

[FenderGibson]

just tell him that phish got to where they are by doing what they wanted to and not by copying another band.

and that trey IMO at least, has a very unique style that he got by not copying someone.

if he truly wants to be like them, he has to not be like them.

that is what phish would do.

appeal to his obsession.

Jonyak knows exactly what he is talking about. Listen to him.

 

[Bass Viking]

He's 19? He's a kid. I'll bet a millivanillion dollars that the obsession is done within a year. People change over time. When we're young that change is much more rapid than when you're an old phart...

Agreed. He has some musical growing up to do and hopefully will realize that being so hung up on one particular artist/group is limiting his growth as a musician.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Lots of younger players mistake someone who can play a lot of notes with a "good player". The guy sounds like he can't get any transitions tight. To me, that's not the sign of a good musician. Good musicians are not so wrapped up in their own noodling that they lose the structure of the song.

Great musicians know what they can do, more importantly, what they can't quite do. They don't spend all day on the bleeding edge, they are good enough that they can dial it back to a comfortable level, still sound great, and make it sound effortless. They push the envelope when they practice, and respect their limitations when they perform. And still sound amazing when they're going at 80%.

The mediocre players who think they are great are trying to go 110% all the time. As they struggle at the edge of their abilities, their tempo drifts all over the map. They get lost.

Regarding guys with perfect pitch. Who cares. Let them verify the rest of your tuners. Once the tuners are calibrated to their satisfaction, tune up with them. Problem solved.

Randy

Although I can`t disagree with your post, it really doesn`t relate to my situation at all. He doesn`t over play, his tempo never drifts, he`s tasteful with his licks, he hits the changes, and while he can shred with the best he rarely does it unless it`s needed for the song. I don`t know where you got the idea that he does any of those things since my post had to do with his work ethic and the direction he`s seemingly trying to take the band I`m sorry if I in anyway made it seem like he did any of those things, but I really am only worrying about the direction he seems to want to take the band...

... speaking of which, today he was trying to add two new cover songs for us to learn. Both songs are from different artists, but both songs have also already been covered by Phish as well The funny thing is he was trying to pass them off as songs he wanted to do because he liked them from their original artist, but I called him out on it when I pulled the Phish covers up on his favorites list on youtube :scowl:

 

[Stumbo]

It seems like you either want to go along with your guitar player or you don't. IMO, calling him out is not the way to motivate him to change.

Since he brought covers to you from original artists(not Phiish) it would have been the perfect time for you to bring out some other covers that you want to add to your song list. But no, you spend your time picking on him because of the Phish connection.

It seems like you want to be the leader of the group but in a passive-aggressive way.

I suggest you take a stand based on what you want to do and if the band breaks up, it breaks up. At least you won't be doing this negative stuff anymore and you'll be able to move on and find some guys that want to do what you want to do. Or maybe not.

Good luck.

 

[PB&J]

I had this problem in a band where the guitarists were obsessed with Coheed and Cambria. It started off by adding a single cover to our setlist and slowly over time they replaced all of the originals with covers. The breaking point for me is when they started calling me Michael Todd which is the name of Coheed's bassist. I was out the door in record time and haven't looked back since.

Being in a band like this can really hold back your creativity and being in a cover band limits your band's appeal to booking agents and labels. If you cover phish, cover it well, but as it sounds you're heart will not be in it and therefor you should defiantly try to redirect the band or take your leave IMO. A few covers can be a nice thing but as you said you could be off forging your own style and your own fans. When a guitarists' obsession becomes the center-point of a band's focus something's gotta give otherwise you're just selling out to the demands of some wanna-be jerk. You're direction should be unanimous otherwise someone is not going to be happy and the music suffers. Just by reading your description of him I feel to urge to punch him in the face.

On the other hand being a phish cover band could land you a steady set of local gigs in a college town such a Boulder where potheads are a-plenty. You choice: wasting your time in a band where your opinions obviously aren't noticed, you unwillingly play a bunch of covers due to the demands of an obsessed guitard, and waste your time playing something you're not into, or find another band. Your choice but in the very least talk to the guy. Creative differences can be a bitch.

 

[not_jason]

It sounds like it's just not your trip. If my experience watching bar bands has shown me anything, there are probably a ton of bass players who would LOVE to follow his lead and do nothing but phish songs and originals that sound like covers. Let him play with one of those guys instead. Find something that fits you better. You can't steer a train. If you wanna stay in the band, that's fine too, but understand what you're signing up for. In my opinion, bands can only be SO democratic. If everyone is arguing about direction, nothing's gonna get done. Either follow him or don't. And if you don't, then just go find something better that you're more prone to agree with.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

It seems like you either want to go along with your guitar player or you don't. IMO, calling him out is not the way to motivate him to change.

Since he brought covers to you from original artists(not Phiish) it would have been the perfect time for you to bring out some other covers that you want to add to your song list. But no, you spend your time picking on him because of the Phish connection.

It seems like you want to be the leader of the group but in a passive-aggressive way.

I suggest you take a stand based on what you want to do and if the band breaks up, it breaks up. At least you won't be doing this negative stuff anymore and you'll be able to move on and find some guys that want to do what you want to do. Or maybe not.

Good luck.

I probably should of explained the situation a bit better. First off, he`s done this sort of thing before. In the last band we were in together he`d try to pass off covers to the band under the original artist, but when it came time to practice them in rehearsal he would play them differently and suggest 'ideas' on what we could do to make the songs mesh more with what he was doing - as it turned out he was already playing the songs the Phish way and just didn`t tell us because he knew me and the second guitarist really disliked Phish... That`s really why I checked out his youtube favorites to see if this was the same crap he was pulling before. Also, I should say by 'calling him out' I don`t mean to imply that I yelled at him or got aggressive, but rather I just told him that we have enough Phish material already for covers and need some actual 'original' covers to do now instead of more Phish stuff.

As far as being a leader is concerned I don`t necessarily want to be the front man or anything like that, but I just want to be respected and not taken for a fool. I want my ideas expressed just as much as his in the group, you know? Now bringing this into relationship with being passive-aggressive... I`m not. I expect him to be straight forward with me and I in return will be for him. I`ve let him know in the past that I don`t care for Phish and I don`t care to cover anymore of their material - I just wish the guy would understand that I`m not kidding around or will be pushed around with this stuff (which is why I think he tries to pass off a lot of covers under their original artist).

*edited for addition* I`ve also suggested songs in the past but he never bothers to learn the guitar parts. It also doesn`t help when he says stupid stuff and makes fun of the music I like and insists that any songs I ever would try to suggest us cover would be "too metal". He thinks I only listen to bands like Tool, Megadeth, Racer X, etc (just because I mentioned that I was in a metal band once before)... even when I currently have bands like Duran Duran, Jamiroquai, Acoustic Alchemy, The Police etc... in my car. Hell, today he said anything I`d suggest would probably be "too weird".

Being in a band like this can really hold back your creativity and being in a cover band limits your band's appeal to booking agents and labels. If you cover phish, cover it well, but as it sounds you're heart will not be in it and therefor you should defiantly try to redirect the band or take your leave IMO. A few covers can be a nice thing but as you said you could be off forging your own style and your own fans. When a guitarists' obsession becomes the center-point of a band's focus something's gotta give otherwise you're just selling out to the demands of some wanna-be jerk. You're direction should be unanimous otherwise someone is not going to be happy and the music suffers. Just by reading your description of him I feel to urge to punch him in the face.

On the other hand being a phish cover band could land you a steady set of local gigs in a college town such a Boulder where potheads are a-plenty. You choice: wasting your time in a band where your opinions obviously aren't noticed, you unwillingly play a bunch of covers due to the demands of an obsessed guitard, and waste your time playing something you're not into, or find another band. Your choice but in the very least talk to the guy. Creative differences can be a bitch.

THIS is exactly how I feel about the situation and the point I`ve been trying to convey to the good people of TB. I want us to be ourselves and not some cheap knock-off. I can see the appeal in having some Phish cover tunes (frat guys LOVE them), but when this is first and foremost an originals group I can`t see the need to have such a huge focus in doing covers - let alone covers and covers of covers from just one band. It`s limiting. It`s tacky. It`s annoying (for me). It`s a lot of things that simply aren`t good unless we`re suppose to be a Phish tribute band or something.

The problem with making our band`s direction unanimous is that the actual band is still just myself and the guitarist. The drummer is just a friend of his who`s filling in until next semester (although his liking of Phish as well is somewhat playing a hand in selecting covers and writing originals ).

The one thing I want to make clear here is that I`m not trying to control the band or be the sole leader - I just want us both to have equal say in what`s going on and for him to respect the fact that I absolutely dislike the band and don`t wish to play more than one or two covers of theirs. I dislike the fact that he`s trying to add and keys player without even consulting me first. I dislike the fact he hasn`t been straight about the covers. I dislike the fact he`s obsessed with a band and feels the need to try and mix our group with theirs... because when it comes down to it we mesh incredibly well as players and friends, but these issues are becoming pretty big factors in whether or not this band will hold longevity. So as I said before, I`ll finish up the next month, cut the demo, talk to him, and see where things may end up.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Meh. You could be doing worse. My old band played few phish covers, and they were some of our favorite jams. The trick is to make them your own. Another thing you can remind you guitarist is that a bands sound is not so much defined by the tone of their instruments and amps, but by their approach to their music.

There's rarely a 100% situation. It's really easy to nitpick and turn your band into a bicker family. Sounds like you guys need to work on some ground rules as to how you introduce songs, and critique each others sound or playing. We were like you guys. We had originals and played covers to fill the time and to keep the crowd grounded. One rule we had was if a person introduced a song, it had to be unanimous that everyone wants to play it. Wanting to play, and agreeing to play are two entirely different things. If it's unanimous, then your motivated to practice it on your own time. I was the Phish-head in my band, and my drummer rejected many of my suggestions simply because he didn't like it. Those are thr breaks. Remember to have fun, smile and give each other props when your cranking and focus on all the positive.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Meh. You could be doing worse. My old band played few phish covers, and they were some of our favorite jams. The trick is to make them your own. Another thing you can remind you guitarist is that a bands sound is not so much defined by the tone of their instruments and amps, but by their approach to their music.

There's rarely a 100% situation. It's really easy to nitpick and turn your band into a bicker family. Sounds like you guys need to work on some ground rules as to how you introduce songs, and critique each others sound or playing. We were like you guys. We had originals and played covers to fill the time and to keep the crowd grounded. One rule we had was if a person introduced a song, it had to be unanimous that everyone wants to play it. Wanting to play, and agreeing to play are two entirely different things. If it's unanimous, then your motivated to practice it on your own time. I was the Phish-head in my band, and my drummer rejected many of my suggestions simply because he didn't like it. Those are thr breaks. Remember to have fun, smile and give each other props when your cranking and focus on all the positive.

Thanks for the informative post, Maki. I guess what I need to address more then anything is band diplomacy.

Anyways, I would write more but I have band practice in an hour... let`s see what happens today...

 

[BassGuyFL]

It sounds like a he has a classic case of not understanding the difference between "songs I want to play" and "songs people want to hear." I'd simply say "Hey if you want to turn this into a Phish cover band that's great but I'm not interested and you should find someone else." Plus he's in that "I'm 19 and know everything" phase too. I'd just let him go on and start looking for another gig unless you really enjoy butting heads with him.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

It sounds like a he has a classic case of not understanding the difference between "songs I want to play" and "songs people want to hear." I'd simply say "Hey if you want to turn this into a Phish cover band that's great but I'm not interested and you should find someone else." Plus he's in that "I'm 19 and know everything" phase too. I'd just let him go on and start looking for another gig unless you really enjoy butting heads with him.

Well, I`m 19 as well so of course I know everything too

To be honest though, TB has become such a vital source of band information for me that I can`t help but feel like I do know more than most people my age when it comes to the management/business side of being in a band. I would be lying if I said TB hasn`t in one way or another played a role with how I look at bands and try to 'sell' our band to the public.

 

[walterw]

"man, i'm trying to do this band that will play cool phish tunes and really get that vibe going, but my bass player is always bitching and saying he doesn't like phish (i know, right?) and trying to do these weird-ass songs that i hate and are totally wrong for the sound i'm trying to create. what do i do?"

he wants you to be what you're just not, and you want him to be what he's just not. quit wasting each other's time.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

"man, i'm trying to do this band that will play cool phish tunes and really get that vibe going, but my bass player is always bitching and saying he doesn't like phish (i know, right?) and trying to do these weird-ass songs that i hate and are totally wrong for the sound i'm trying to create. what do i do?"

he wants you to be what you're just not, and you want him to be what he's just not. quit wasting each other's time.

Blunt, but you make an excellent point that I`ve overlooked.

But then again, we aren`t a Phish cover band or even a jam band for that matter

If there`s one thing I can really take from this post it`s that I need to be very upfront with him when the time comes around to discuss this stuff.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Grr.

So get this - today we discussed our recording dates and how we were planning on handling our business and what not, and the guitarist tells us that he`s already invited his "bad@$$ keyboard friend" to come and "sit in" on our demo dates So I protest this to a small degree but say it`s fine only if he can rehearse with us at least 3 times before our dates and the guitarist then claims that the keys player is out of town now and that by the time he gets back the guitarist himself will be leaving town and won`t be back by until the 1st :scowl: Our recording dates are on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th and he wants to throw a hail marry by having some kid come in who hasn`t heard our material before and have him record on our demo which he has had no hand in helping create. On top of that, the guitarist doesn`t expect the keys player to put in any money towards the demo (What the hell?!)

At this point I told him I was very against this and our drummer even pipped up and said he too thought this was getting a little ridiculous - to which the guitarist said, "Don`t worry, he (the keys guy) has more musical knowledge then us three combined. He`ll sound great. He`ll make the us sound so much better!" (Are you freaking kidding me?) After that I told him that while this guy may or may not be better than all three of us combined he has no right coming in and playing with us. We wrote the stuff. The parts sound great as is. And I`m sorry, but I`m not having some keys player come in and disrupt what I`m playing in the songs and start changing the dynamics, groove, or overall feeling of the songs we`ve spent hours working on.

To say the least, I`m quite livid right now.

 

[funkybass4ever]

what do the other band members think of his "phishiness?"
Let him know that you guys arent a phish tibute band and that jamming for 6 hours isnt going to improve your band any if your band members are all unhappy. I would vote to appease his phishiness with doing a couple tunes from them. As for him wanting you to play a modulus he is over the line.
if all else fails tell him you want to add some Jonas Hellborg/Buckethead tunes to your show and watch his reaction-then let him know that is how you feel

 

[BillyC]

At least he's not obsessed with SRV...I auditioned with a band where the guitar player played a SRV strat,wore the ill advised headgear and cowboy boots and only wanted to do Stevie Ray covers while playing the guitar behind his back and playing with his teeth...It was embarrassing.I said no thanks.

 

[cedar]

Grr.

So get this - today we discussed our recording dates and how we were planning on handling our business and what not, and the guitarist tells us that he`s already invited his "bad@$$ keyboard friend" to come and "sit in" on our demo dates So I protest this to a small degree but say it`s fine only if he can rehearse with us at least 3 times before our dates and the guitarist then claims that the keys player is out of town now and that by the time he gets back the guitarist himself will be leaving town and won`t be back by until the 1st :scowl: Our recording dates are on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th and he wants to throw a hail marry by having some kid come in who hasn`t heard our material before and have him record on our demo which he has had no hand in helping create. On top of that, the guitarist doesn`t expect the keys player to put in any money towards the demo (What the hell?!)

At this point I told him I was very against this and our drummer even pipped up and said he too thought this was getting a little ridiculous - to which the guitarist said, "Don`t worry, he (the keys guy) has more musical knowledge then us three combined. He`ll sound great. He`ll make the us sound so much better!" (Are you freaking kidding me?) After that I told him that while this guy may or may not be better than all three of us combined he has no right coming in and playing with us. We wrote the stuff. The parts sound great as is. And I`m sorry, but I`m not having some keys player come in and disrupt what I`m playing in the songs and start changing the dynamics, groove, or overall feeling of the songs we`ve spent hours working on.

To say the least, I`m quite livid right now.

Gosh... me thinks it is time to move on... I mean, you're a band. There is give and take. What he's doing is just wrong. It's selfish and unthoughtful of you. I would think you could do better...