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Does older wood really sound better? and how long does it take?

#21
A question that can't be answered with fact. I mean they have been saying that one of the reasons that Stradivarius violins sound so good is the old wood, or better yet the particular nature of the wood. The environment that the tree grew in, clean air, slow growth, blah blah blah. None of it can be proven or dispelled. I also read of studies on wood and the effects of the repeated vibrations from the strings have on them. Something to do with changes at a molecular level. Molecules aligning a certain way or something like that. IIRC changes were proven, but does that equal to a change in tone that would be noticeable enough to be heard by a human? Is it a good change? I believe personally that there is something to the whole thick finish and thin finish debate. Whether one is better or not depends on the instrument. For example I once stripped a Squier and refinished it with a lacquer finish. Biggest change I noticed was that the dead spots were noticeably worse. Did the thin finish bring those about. Or did it enhance the resonance of the other notes making the dead spots more apparent? I have no clue? I just know that it was different. Will it sound better in 30 years? I'll be to old to know the difference. Find a great playing and sounding bass. Attribute the tone to whatever you like. Someone will surely disagree with you, and call you an idiot for it. That I can promise.
 
#22
ThaLowEndTheory said:
A question that can't be answered with fact. I mean they have been saying that one of the reasons that Stradivarius violins sound so good is the old wood, or better yet the particular nature of the wood. The environment that the tree grew in, clean air, slow growth, blah blah blah. None of it can be proven or dispelled. I also read of studies on wood and the effects of the repeated vibrations from the strings have on them. Something to do with changes at a molecular level. Molecules aligning a certain way or something like that. IIRC changes were proven, but does that equal to a change in tone that would be noticeable enough to be heard by a human? Is it a good change? I believe personally that there is something to the whole thick finish and thin finish debate. Whether one is better or not depends on the instrument. For example I once stripped a Squier and refinished it with a lacquer finish. Biggest change I noticed was that the dead spots were noticeably worse. Did the thin finish bring those about. Or did it enhance the resonance of the other notes making the dead spots more apparent? I have no clue? I just know that it was different. Will it sound better in 30 years? I'll be to old to know the difference. Find a great playing and sounding bass. Attribute the tone to whatever you like. Someone will surely disagree with you, and call you an idiot for it. That I can promise.
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Nicely said. These topics are fun to discuss until someone comes along claiming that they carry the shining light of truth and anyone who disagrees is either deaf, gullible, or stupid. :eek: It's all opinion.




My hunch is that the tone of wood does not change over time. Some say that magnets do, i.e. that pickup tone can change over time, but I don't know whether or not this has been confirmed.
 
#24
The reason that Stradivarius violins and old Fender P-basses and early Strats and Les Pauls and Martin acoustic guitars all sound so good is that 1) they defined what good was, back in the day, and 2) new ones don't sound like old ones (even when the old ones were new) because they make them differently. Tonight I played a new Fender Precision for one set and my 1976 Precision for the next set, and the new one is a much better bass in every way except one. It plays better, it's built better, it's quieter, it looks better, but it doesn't sound like a 70's P-bass. I think the vintage bass probably sounded very much the same when it was made as it does now. But that's what we define as the classic sound, so it "sounds better". Basses may improve with age, but in my opinion that's over-hyped.
 
#26
I have a parts Jazz bass with a '68 Fender alder body. I got the body in 1986 and it had the original neck on it as well. But the stock pick-ups and bridge were long gone. That bass sounded fantastic back then. Thru the years that body has had different necks and different pickups on it and it's always sounded great. Last spring I gave the body to a furniture maker friend of mine and had him strip the finish off. Which was about four coats of primer/paint/clear-coat. When he was done I just put two coats of Minwax Antique Oil on it and re-assembled it. It sounds really amazing. It has such a "live" sound it's kind of hard to describe. All the notes across the neck just pop and the tone is amazing. It proves the fact that if you have a decent sounding piece of wood to start with, it's only going to sound better thru the years. )-(
 
#29
Pickup deteriation should be left to another topic thread.
A Strad violin is a specialist handmade finely tuned instrument that is meant to produce a brilliant un-amplified sound and shouldn't really be compared to an electric bass in any thread. But I do see the point you're making about a thin finnish.
I still think all instruments are meant to be played. The more they're played the better the chance they will mature into fine instruments.
 
#30
GlennW said:
Wood delivered on trains sounds better than wood delivered on trucks because the vibrations from the railroad rearrange the molecules in the wood which simulates decades of playing time and gives the body that "broken in" sound. :hiding:
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Don't you mean a de-railed sound. ...... Maybe that's why so many instruments sound like........... wait for it......... a train wreck.
 
#32
A few things...

1. If nitro lets moisture out over the years, wouldn't it stand to reason that it would also let moisture in? If you store the bass is a damp basement, then would it not absord water?

2. If you listen to classic recordings of classic basses, they were new at the time. Jamerson's bass wasn't aged in the 60's.

3. As Ken said, nobody ever says that their bass sounds worse with age.

4. If a peice of wood is properly dried before it is used, then there shouldn't be any issues.

5. With all that said, everything affects tone. Theoretically, playing an instrument in two different humidities can result in a different tone due to proximity of air molecules. But, I think it's best to leave that stuff out of what we do.
 
#35
Surly said:
What sounds better, that same old bass played through a tube amp or solid state amp? :)
I think these debates will go on forever because there is no definitive answer, and never will be.

:hiding:
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This post is getting turned it a electronic debate once pickups and amps are mentioned. .....
We are talking body woods and finish before the bass is plugged in.
Or at least we should be.
Every instrument has acoustic principals that should be enhanced by addition of good electronics.
I have a poly finish on my alder J-bass that sounds just as nice as the Nitro finish on swamp ash P-bass when played acoustic.
 
#36
I'm in the "a good bass is a good bass" camp, but I do tend to believe that aging and use (the whole bass vibrates in reaction with the string over and over) slightly alter the instrument.

I've also been unimpressed plenty of times by older instruments, including pre-CBS Fenders. My main bass is an older (~1985) Tokai P-Bass with an alder body and (I think) a nitro finish. Neither vintage nor collectible, but it sounds good and keeps me from shopping for another P-Bass.

The bass that excited me most when I played it was a Sadowsky that had never left his shop. The second most was a 1960's P-Bass.

KO
 
#38
Fuzzbass said:
Aha. Another urban legend dispelled. Thank you.
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Not necessarily - on their own, the magnets deteriorate very slowly, but there are a lot of external factors - external magnetic fields from speakers, trauma from being dropped, etc. In real world use, I'd wager that it's much more than 2%/100 years.

I will note that the Antiquities II's in my P-Bass sound very similar to my ear to the Duncan SPB-1 pickups that I had dropped in a Yamaha BB300. Neither are extremely vintage, but Duncan does their best with the Antiquities. Then again, much of that may be that they want the Antiquities to look the part (cloth wire, rusted screws, etc.) and that the tone that both pickups are aiming for is similar.

KO
 
#39
I think that there are so many factors that affect the sound of a bass that wood age is somewhat subjective. For instance I have went to a music store and picked up two identical basses (Brand, Model, color, and year) and they sound somewhat different. I think fitment and setup play a huge role in how the instrument comes out sounding. I also think that it can be like listening to your tone on a recording versus what your ears perceive it to be coming out of the amp.
 

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