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Does older wood really sound better? and how long does it take?

Yes, and the bottom line is that it's all opinion. I respect Norio Imai's opinion, and I also respect the opinions of those who believe that tone does not change over time. It's worth mentioning that if all Norio does is provide a service and not sell product, then his opinion is possibly unbiased. Many opinions are vested: a vintage owner or dealer will likely have a different opinion than a builder of new instruments.

Bingo as well. I do find the comment about vintage instruments being better than new instruments because they've been tested, so to speak, interesting. I've never bought a brand new bass thinking, "This thing rocks! Geez, I hope that it rocks just as much in twenty years." I always buy an instrument hoping that it will hold up quality-wise - the neck doesn't bow, the tuners don't wear out in a year, the pots don't come loose. However, I never buy a new instrument as a "tone investment."

It's reasonable to believe that a bass is going to go through chemical changes during its lifetime. Most basses are made of wood, which is organic and...well...changes. Whether this physical change translates into tonal change - and more importantly, noticable tonal change - is seriously up for debate. Many people claim that it does, but this is often based upon their experience. Such a question requires an empirical study done by someone who understands scientific research. While many techs and luthiers are bright and knowledgable people, I'd venture to guess that most don't have graduate level educations in physics and chemistry and are trained in empirical research.
 
What if it's really humid where you live? Can the wood in your bass gain moisture and start sounding worse?

Because i think that's what happened to me. I drilled a hole in the back of my bass and set it in the corner to let all of the squishy sounding moisture out and I didn't touch it for 5 years... I came back 5 years later and it sounded like crap!

I'm just not sure of it actualy gained moisture, or if it over-dried, or if maybe I should have played bass in that 5 year period. I'll never know for sure, but I'm convinced it gained moisture and if I lived some place warm and dry it would sound like Jaco's bass of doom and I could nail tunes like Donna Lee. Oh well, I'm going to go buy a Squier Vintage Modified Sunburts Jazz Bass and start drying that baby out for a few years to see if I can get that vintage tone out of it.
 
IMOpinion, the best bass tone comes from either mahogany or a composite of different woods. Unless you want a Fender P sound...

Preferences for aged timber, (that has been dried for many years) over recently-dried
material is also often expressed by some luthiers. Some research has been conducted
(Barducci & Pasqualini 1948 cited in Bucur 2006; Holz 1981) into the changes in
wood properties with age suggesting a general decrease in the mechanical integrity of
wood beyond around a decade after final processing. This loss of stiffness was
accompanied by increases in internal friction (decreasing the duration of ‘tap-tone’)
which is believed to negatively affect instrument performance.
It has however been demonstrated that other factors at a molecular level, such as
subtle changes in the crystalline structure in cell walls with age, may be positively
influencing the instrument sound quality. In one study a ‘crystallinity index’ was
observed to reach a maximum after around 300 years in spruce, and subsequently
decline from this point.
This is consistent with the approximate age of many high quality violins made by the
Italian masters suggesting a ‘peak’ in acoustic performance might also be a function
of time (Bucur 2006).

... Far too objective, but this is what Andrew morrow's gottstein trust paper says about it. On a scale of 10 to 50 odd years we're talking about, it's likely the loss of integrity in the wood cells would cause a lower speed of sound and a more "lo-fi" or "warm" sound in the instrument much like mahogany, which has a low speed of sound, consistent that of older instruments...
 
I to have wondered this, Like the roadworn basses they say their like 50's and 60's strats, does that effect anything?

:cool:
I have a Roadworn Fender Jazz.
It is light weight, and has a very thin "Nitro" finish on bass.
I played the roadworn, next to a MIA Jazz, before I bought it.
The finish is much thinner on the roadworn, and the body wood was almost 1 1/2 lbs lighter.
This contributed to the Roadworns more open, resonent, tone.
To me, it did sound more like an older bass?
 
I am confident that tone changes over time, also confident that wood is wood regardless of age, and some pieces will always be better. Also, that in any given consistency, such as a Fender design, there will be better sounding basses than others, and the mystery in all of this is to know why. I can take any crappy sounding bass and make it sound better by subjecting it to extreme action and beating on it. It won't be magical when I'm done, it will just be warmer sounding. Old wood is not the grail, it's an anomally consistent with treasured tones. All this bass tone stuff is a lot of carrot dangling to spend money. Good tone can come from a cheap bass, and that unique thing is a collection of many variables that happen by accident. For example, the tonal nodes naturally present in wood happen to occur at the right place in an instrument...thus more resonant affect. This vintage thing is complex, not so cut and dry. Old wood takes a plump wallet, and no words here will change that.
 
"They" will say just about anything to get people to buy stuff.

Does it affect anything? Of course it does...the price.

Naturally, you are right Glenn, but I must say that the Road Worn P-basses and Jazz basses I have played all have been light and quite resonant. I A/B'd them with a lot of other new Fenders. They were lighter and to me sounded better. The variables were minimized by virtue of the fact that nearly all my comparisons were made with instruments of about the same age and set up by the same person in the same shop.

One of the more respected guitar people in Lexington, KY, Bob Willcutt, once asked me what I thought as I played a red RW Jazz in his Lexington, shop. I told him they seemed "baked" and he agreed. He wondered aloud how they are doing it. I am still wondering. :cool:
 
I haven't played any of the RW stuff, so I can't say anything about them other than everything I've read has been very positive.

The thing with Fender is their pickups have had very wide variations over the years. It wouldn't be too hard to get 5 or 10 Fender pickups which sounded very different; factor in different strings and the sound gets more varied in a hurry. Then you add amp/speaker combinations...

All that really matters is that the owner is happy with what he has.

But the theory of magical wood that sounds good unplugged will automatically good when amplified is wishful thinking, IMO. I'm pretty sure that I could take any body, no matter how good it sounds unplugged, and make it sound bad amplified. I believe the wood matters to an extent, but when talking about electric basses poor electronics will override the special bodies. But, the good bodies will also have an advantage with good electronics. I'd rather have plywood with good pickups/strings than a fine body with poor pickups/strings. All IME, of course.

And the, "Naturally, you are right..." part; I'm still laughing. Thanks.
 
It's comforting to know that I will be able to get a VERY similar bass sound as the Motown session cats,and without a Pre CBS bass,from this debate, I'd say it gas more to do with the fingers, I'm positive a MIM strat sounds virtually the same as Clapton's vintage ones when he's playing it.
A cool old bass may be a little more inspiring ( not better sounding) when played by the right player..
Although
There are qualities to old Gear that can't be reproduced w new gear,
I've heard it and felt it, can't really explain it though.
Right?
My old seventies Les Paul deluxe had a quality and sound that was only available in a vintage guitar, alot of what I loved was FEEL though.
 
I will just offer this. A longtime furniture maker and woodworker we hired to make us a big dining room table showed us some white oak he had stored (stickered etc) for I believe 20 years. He stored it, and built the table in a Pacific coastal area subject to occassional fog etc.
After finishing it well with multiple coats he delivered it to my 2300 ft coastal mountain home where the fog rarely reached.
After one hot dry summer the beefy laminated skirt attached to the slab split due to the whole table loosing moisture in my high desert type environment and the table top and skirt were screwed together and were shrinking in different orientation directions.
My longwinded point is a 60's Fullerton P-Bass shipped to New Orleans, Louisiana brand new (or Kauaii etc) will have greater moisture content today than a 2007 P bass sent to Salt Lake or Boulder Co or Las Vegas and seasoned 1 year IMHO. Wood accepts and loses moisture constantly and a bass has plenty of ways for it to enter despite the finish. (P/U and control cavity, neck pocket etc.) Okay ready for incoming fire from luthiers and woodworkers!:hiding:
 
The info on basic lumber drying methods (Dark Horse's post pointed it out) is worth reading--and hooray for the College of Agriculture at the University of Kentucky--not to mention the School of Music there...

Invalid Link Removed

BTW, the PDF version has the missing illustrations--cool!
 
not much,but,,`wood' when it is milled will have`so much' moisture,the ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS,,`old wood' being more resonent(myself),i don't see how it could be any more resonent that when it was built,sure if the instrument absorbed would be one thing as well as if it dried but the wood being the age it was when milled(to me would) determine the resonance,the AGE?,,,the tree died,i don't see how it being a part of an instrument would change after completion unless,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the thing had been played tweeked and brought into a sweet playing mode simply by application(and desire of course),,,,,,,,,,not to P anybody off but wood is dead after the tree is cut,explain to me how it can sound any better 20 years later unless `the setup' is way better

LOVE is what it's all about,love your RIG and you'll find what you seek,hate it and it will sit and twist,hey!,i have to go find my LOVE(where'ssheat!?):hyper:
 
...wood, when it is milled will have 'so much' moisture, the ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS, [about] 'old wood' being more resonant...I don't see how it could be any more resonant that when it was built...the tree died, I don't see how it being a part of an instrument would [it] change after completion...

Wood, like all organic materials is subject to oxidation, chemical processes, changes in internal structure, decay, environment factors, pests, etc. How can that not change the wood?

The original question actually was:
...Do ya really think it sounds better?...

It has not been answered, IMHO. I am not sure it can be, as it pertains to electric basses.
 

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