• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Does the Oscillator Devices Hydra4x Matrix Loop Switcher work with bass (no filtering, tone suck, etc.)?

bass.slinger

bass.slinger

Gold Supporting Member
Aug 15, 2015
1,449
2,107
Santa Fe, NM
bass-slinger.com
#1
Building a pedalboard and need a MIDI matrix loop switcher - unfortunately, the Morningstar ML10X that I have filters the signal and cuts lows. So, I need something else - anyone have experience with the Oscillator Devices Hydra4X (HYDRA - MIDI Loop Switcher - Oscillator Devices). Thanks.

1784141944803.jpeg
 
Last edited:
#11
Reached out to Oscillator Devices about the supported frequency range of the Hydra4x covering bass and got the following reply:

I have to admit that the HYDRA4X isn't the best in that matter. In your case I'd wait a while. There is a new HYDRA8X coming out, that will not have any low cut and after that the HYDRA4X also get's a redesign where this will be addressed.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers

Uwe

Sounds like the available hardware used in these matrix loopers (the Hydra4x and the Morningstar ML10X) was designed for guitar mainly. Bummer.

On the plus side, they recognize this issue and are working on a fix in new products (maybe they are waiting for updated chips / hardware from a third party).

For right now, I guess I will be using either a Voodoo Labs Hex or a Morningstar ML5 (both true bypass fixed serial loopers) with my Morningstar MC8 Pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: smeet
#12
Talked again with Uwe at Oscillator Devices and he is hoping to have the Hydra8x out later this year…

Looks like I will just use my pedals without a switcher for now since I really want a matrix one.

Thrilled that a company is even worrying about bass players (or extended range guitarists) since I can't imagine this is a lucrative market share.
 
  • Like
Reactions: smeet
#14
Hey, Uwe here from Oscillator Devices. I just got wind of this discussion and wanted to clear up what this is about.

First, this is not an inherent problem with matrix loop switchers. They are perfectly capable of providing a flat frequency response.

Anyway, when I got Michael's email this morning, I realized I couldn't remember ever actually measuring the HYDRA4X's frequency response. So I pulled one off the shelf and hooked it up to ARTA. The result showed -3dB at 75Hz, which wouldn't be great for bass guitars or any other instruments that rely on low end. Here's the graph:
Screenshot 2026-07-16 071317.png

So, I replied Michael what you can read above. But I couldn't really believe this, because I know I have bass players as customers that happily use the HYDRA4X and I never heard of any issue with

So, when I got a few minutes time I pulled up the schematic to see where this comes from, when it hit me. I did the measurement with the audio interface set to Line Level. You know, Line Level has an input impedance of around 10k as opposed to Instrument Level with 1M (exact values vary). I did the measurement again with the audio interface set to Instrument Level and voila:
Screenshot 2026-07-16 204628.png

This is what you want to see from an audio device (the level is 6dB higher because of an additional boost by the audio interface).

But what does that mean? That means, that as long as you plug in the HYDAR4X into an input in which you'd plug a passive bass, you're totally fine. That means modern effects pedals, as well as amplifiers are fine. Basically, as long as you're operating in the realm of bass or guitar players, you shouldn't notice anything. Only when plugging into an audio interfaces or mixing console make sure to set the input to instrument level.

So, is this normal? No, it is not, and it should not be. This is my fault. I selected output capacitors that are too small. They create a low-pass filter when the input impedance of the sink is too low. As already mentioned, the upcoming HYDRA8X, the new HYDRA4X coming later this year, and all my other devices do not have this problem.

Sorry for that rather technical reply, but I'm happy to explain this in more (or less) depth. Just let me know if you have any questions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Mac, gonzkal, Snaxster and 3 others
#17
dr_bakterius said:
Hey, Uwe here from Oscillator Devices. I just got wind of this discussion and wanted to clear up what this is about.

First, this is not an inherent problem with matrix loop switchers. They are perfectly capable of providing a flat frequency response.

Anyway, when I got Michael's email this morning, I realized I couldn't remember ever actually measuring the HYDRA4X's frequency response. So I pulled one off the shelf and hooked it up to ARTA. The result showed -3dB at 75Hz, which wouldn't be great for bass guitars or any other instruments that rely on low end. Here's the graph:View attachment 7537364
So, I replied Michael what you can read above. But I couldn't really believe this, because I know I have bass players as customers that happily use the HYDRA4X and I never heard of any issue with

So, when I got a few minutes time I pulled up the schematic to see where this comes from, when it hit me. I did the measurement with the audio interface set to Line Level. You know, Line Level has an input impedance of around 10k as opposed to Instrument Level with 1M (exact values vary). I did the measurement again with the audio interface set to Instrument Level and voila:
View attachment 7537404
This is what you want to see from an audio device (the level is 6dB higher because of an additional boost by the audio interface).

But what does that mean? That means, that as long as you plug in the HYDAR4X into an input in which you'd plug a passive bass, you're totally fine. That means modern effects pedals, as well as amplifiers are fine. Basically, as long as you're operating in the realm of bass or guitar players, you shouldn't notice anything. Only when plugging into an audio interfaces or mixing console make sure to set the input to instrument level.

So, is this normal? No, it is not, and it should not be. This is my fault. I selected output capacitors that are too small. They create a low-pass filter when the input impedance of the sink is too low. As already mentioned, the upcoming HYDRA8X, the new HYDRA4X coming later this year, and all my other devices do not have this problem.

Sorry for that rather technical reply, but I'm happy to explain this in more (or less) depth. Just let me know if you have any questions.
Click to expand...
Love that you brought the technicals! Thanks!
 
#19
Hey! Yeah, I saw pretty much the same frequency response with the ML10X as was shown above (starting to dip at 200hz, down -3db by 75hz, -5db by 50hz). I was running mine into my Quad Cortex at the time, and I never thought to try playing with the input impedance (since it's adjustable). Morningstar did not give any indication that there was a workaround for the issue. I have since sold the ML10X, so can't test again. But here are the results I was getting:

The test signal:
Clean.png


The output of the ML10X (just clean straight through):
ML10X.png


The response from Morningstar:

Hi Derek,

Thanks for reaching out.

Yes, that is normal for the buffers designed around the matrix switch IC in the ML10X.

Please feel free to let me know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,
James
Click to expand...
 
#20
I happen to have a ML10X here and I did the frequency response measurement yesterday. I initially didn't want to post it, because I think it's bad business practice to bash a competitor (more like a David/Goliath situation, though). Anyway, we now have a statement of Morningstar that the ML10X doesn't have a flat frequency response as well as a measurement of another user, so I guess it's ok to complete the picture with measurements with different input impedances, to show that this isn't the issue here.
This is the ML10X with line level:
Screenshot 2026-07-16 204954.png

This is the ML10X with instrument level:
Screenshot 2026-07-16 205010.png

Besides the 6dB boost of my audio interface there is no difference. This shows that while the low cut on the HYDRA4X happens with the output stage interacting with the following input, the low cut in the ML10X happens on a deeper level. This corresponds with the statement of Morningstar that it is because of the buffer design around the crosspoint switch.

Please note that I have all the love and respect for Morningstar. I use a MC6 on my board and the ML10X is a outstanding piece of gear. I also recommend Morningstar products to every client that is asking for advice on MIDI controllers. They did groundbreaking work in the field of MIDI for guitar and bass players and without them Oscillator Devices probably wouldn't exist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gonzkal, Derek Williams, sunbeast and 1 other person

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back