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Does this sound too wooly?

bullshark

bullshark

Sep 7, 2006
791
408
Montreal, Canada
floatingby.com
#1
Hi, getting back into recording and sharing stuff with other musicians. In the before long ago, I would record through a DI straight into the interface, and also put a 421 in front of a cab and mix both to taste. Versatile.
But I don't have the 421 anymore, and recording a cab is... problematic since I am now in an apartment. But I have a Sans amp, so I tried that. Only problem is the sound is baked in.
So this is the sound I came up with for an old school bluesy type of sound. not sure if I like it or not, or I must say some days I love it, some days I don't.

What do you think, too wooly and tuby, or it's right for the type of tune(there will be upright piano and guitars on most recording).

 
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#3
IMHO, the Sansamp has its limitations and this exact sound is one of them. The amount of woolyness is just right - but this is as far as I have gotten myself before turning elsewhere. For my personal taste, this is lacking both weight (as in low end presence) and shine (as in treble content). I like the sound in general, but I'd wish for a bit more of the fat warm bottom end and - forgive me if I have to resort to audiophile terms - the top end feels a bit constrained, as if the low pass filter was set a bit too low. I like that airy feeling that 2k-5k will give you if you boost that a little - but then make sure your tone does not have too much treble to begin with. Maybe setting the blend on the Sansamp to 50/50 could help out a little?
 
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#6
el murdoque said:
IMHO, the Sansamp has its limitations and this exact sound is one of them. The amount of woolyness is just right - but this is as far as I have gotten myself before turning elsewhere. For my personal taste, this is lacking both weight (as in low end presence) and shine (as in treble content). I like the sound in general, but I'd wish for a bit more of the fat warm bottom end and - forgive me if I have to resort to audiophile terms - the top end feels a bit constrained, as if the low pass filter was set a bit too low. I like that airy feeling that 2k-5k will give you if you boost that a little - but then make sure your tone does not have too much treble to begin with. Maybe setting the blend on the Sansamp to 50/50 could help out a little?
Click to expand...
It's a balancing act, which I'm not sure I've done right. If I put more weight on the bass bottom end, then the kick drum disappear, so you then raise the kick but then mud appears.
If I open up the highs, then not only finger noise start appearing, which might be good in some cases but not for this type of music IMO, but also higher strings start to show different tonal behavior, so when the playing move to higher strings the it become obvious, or imbalanced.
But you gave me an idea which I hadn't thought about before, and that is to treat the sans amp output as an amp, so i could record the bass straight DI on a track AND the Sans Amp on another so I then would have more flexibility once other instruments start being added. Thanks.
 
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#7
bullshark said:
It's a balancing act, which I'm not sure I've done right. If I put more weight on the bass bottom end, then the kick drum disappear, so you then raise the kick but then mud appears.
If I open up the highs, then not only finger noise start appearing, which might be good in some cases but not for this type of music IMO, but also higher strings start to show different tonal behavior, so when the playing move to higher strings the it become obvious, or imbalanced.
But you gave me an idea which I hadn't thought about before, and that is to treat the sans amp output as an amp, so i could record the bass straight DI on a track AND the Sans Amp on another so I then would have more flexibility once other instruments start being added. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Balancing the kick drum and bass certainly is an art. Good luck with that!
I'm fairly certain that much of my criticism will disappear when guitars join the fray.
 
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#8
bullshark said:
Hi, getting back into recording and sharing stuff with other musicians. In the before long ago, I would record through a DI straight into the interface, and also put a 421 in front of a cab and mix both to taste. Versatile.
But I don't have the 421 anymore, and recording a cab is... problematic since I am now in an apartment. But I have a Sans amp, so I tried that. Only problem is the sound is baked in.
So this is the sound I came up with for an old school bluesy type of sound. not sure if I like it or not, or I must say some days I love it, some days I don't.

What do you think, too wooly and tuby, or it's right for the type of tune(there will be upright piano and guitars on most recording).

Click to expand...

Sounds fine/fitting to me, that riffing has a retro vibe anyway. Was there a particular tune or sound that you were trying to emulate or approach?
 
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#9
Michedelic said:
Sounds fine/fitting to me, that riffing has a retro vibe anyway. Was there a particular tune or sound that you were trying to emulate or approach?
Click to expand...
Not really trying to emulate anything. I'm trying to get a warm, even wooly, tone without muddiness and get notes definition without clanginess or uneven tone AND leave room for a reverby rhythm guitar and an upright piano.
 
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#11
Personally I'd thin it out just a smidge (upper lows) and add a bit more presence (upper mids) to be sure it will translate to different systems.

What I do get the urge to tweak is the drums. I'd want less of the room because it's rather middly-sounding which doesn't flatter the snare or the ride. If there's a separate track for the room mic, I'd EQ it and pull it back a bit in the mix. If it's the overheads I'd EQ them and next time place them closer to the kit.
 
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#12
iqi616 said:
Personally I'd thin it out just a smidge (upper lows) and add a bit more presence (upper mids) to be sure it will translate to different systems.

What I do get the urge to tweak is the drums. I'd want less of the room because it's rather middly-sounding which doesn't flatter the snare or the ride. If there's a separate track for the room mic, I'd EQ it and pull it back a bit in the mix. If it's the overheads I'd EQ them and next time place them closer to the kit.
Click to expand...
Drums are a whole other can of worm. On this thing they're programmed by me using a very old sample library called BFD2. Now, those sound glorious in isolation, but as soon as you add other instruments it all falls apart, they stick out like a sore thumb and are a b***h to sit in a mix. I usually run out of patience and drown them in reverb to have them sit at all🤣

I have another library that is the exact opposite, it's called Steven Slate drums. Sound like garbage in isolation, but they sit in a mix instantly and beautifully, unfortunately they don't work anymore as I can't get them authorized in the sampler.

but thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
 
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#13
bullshark said:
Drums are a whole other can of worm. On this thing they're programmed by me using a very old sample library called BFD2. Now, those sound glorious in isolation, but as soon as you add other instruments it all falls apart, they stick out like a sore thumb and are a b***h to sit in a mix. I usually run out of patience and drown them in reverb to have them sit at all🤣

I have another library that is the exact opposite, it's called Steven Slate drums. Sound like garbage in isolation, but they sit in a mix instantly and beautifully, unfortunately they don't work anymore as I can't get them authorized in the sampler.

but thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Well, they sound realistic enough for me to think about mic placement so that's a good thing.

What I like to do is use a subtle amount of "bright room" reverb on synthesized drums (even ones that aren't supposed to be realistic). I put it on the whole kit to mimic a room mic and I find it ties all the bits together and adds air.

Some people compress the room mic heavily which acts almost like parallel compression in that the ambience supports the quiet bits without pushing the kit into the background. I've not tried this myself but putting a compressor on the bright room reverb might help.
 
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#14
Sound you're getting is nice. I think the sans amp has a pas through as well as the affected DI side so using two channels with one clean would give you the opportunity to use whatever plugins you want on the recorded sound and you'd have two channels. These days I usually just use the one direct channel and use the plugins to tailor the sound, but sometimes I'll use a preamp or something else for variety or a specific sound. Have fun with it!
 
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#17
bullshark said:
So this is the sound I came up with for an old school bluesy type of sound. not sure if I like it or not, or I must say some days I love it, some days I don't.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it's an old-school bluesy sound, nice and round. I like it.

My ears are also fickle -- it's a curse, for sure. Decades ago I flipped a lot of gear because I woke up one morning and decided I didn't like what I'd previously thought was great. Weeks later, I'd wish I had the old gear back again. Point is: as long as you're happy some of the time, you're good. :cool:
 
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