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Double Bass Dominant scales
- Thread starter Lionel Albert
- Start date
I like what I've learned from those guys. When they say in their short tutorials: "Now take it through all 12 keys", there goes another chunk of time well spent getting a tiny bit closer to being able to speak the language.
Are threads like this going to be a weekly occurrence from you now? Why bother posting if you can't even try to have a discussion with the first person who responds? And it's not even like the first response was combative or defensive, I think Papageno genuinely wants to know your opinion/elaboration.
Sure, we hear lots about dominant scales, but do we ever hear about submissive scales? You'll need them both for your BÖC cover band.
I've never had an opinion about Pythagorean theorem why should I have an opinion about this ?
You know it or you don't know it.
I'm just waiting for the people who will say it's craps.
Both of those guys can play, and they obviously know their stuff. They are correct in that this sort of “showdown” is the pinnacle of nerdiness. Why? Because the scales have 6 notes in common, so they are far more alike than different. The scales are identical but for the fact that one has a natural 5-6 and the other has a single #5/b13 in the same place.
If I had to choose, I prefer the sound of the altered scale played by Peter (the gentleman on the right), because it sounds more organic. But in general, with students, I try to get them to create simple melodies over tunes like Solar that make melodic sense and are singable by the student before they start worrying about superimposing symmetrical or more abstract scales over the changes.
In my experience, people who can make these sounds make sense in context are actually hearing them as sounds rather than theoretical typing concepts. As always, EEMMV, and EEMWCB.
If I had to choose, I prefer the sound of the altered scale played by Peter (the gentleman on the right), because it sounds more organic. But in general, with students, I try to get them to create simple melodies over tunes like Solar that make melodic sense and are singable by the student before they start worrying about superimposing symmetrical or more abstract scales over the changes.
In my experience, people who can make these sounds make sense in context are actually hearing them as sounds rather than theoretical typing concepts. As always, EEMMV, and EEMWCB.
Didn't you claim to be a teacher of some sort in the last thread you made? And now you think Pythagorean theorem can somehow be logically compared to how some musical scales are used?
Technically, in modern English, posting something on the internet in order to illicit a negative reaction from others is called “Trolling”. It’s not allowed on this site.
Moving forward, if people would like to talk about the difference between the diminished and altered scales and state a preference, that’s totally fine. But please don’t take the bait and become argumentative, which seems to be the purpose of the original post. I have a busy day, but I will be checking in from time to time. Let’s please keep it civil!
Yeah, and a name is given.
Sometimes it's the way it's constructed that gives the name.
Sometimes not.
I'm not sure if that is the scale you are referring to, but I like very much the phrygian scale with an added major 3rd as a dominant scale (8 tone scale).
It works really well on a V chord in minor, as well as on V/iv in minor, and on V/vi and V/ii in major.
For example in C minor, that would be:
- on G7 (V/i): G Ab Bb B C D Eb F
- on C7 (V/iv): C Db Eb E F G Ab Bb
and in C major:
on E7 (V/vi): E F G G# A B C D
on A7 (V/ii): A Bb C C# D E F G.
This sounds really "organic", in the sense explained by @Chris Fitzgerald in this tutorial:
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I'm sorry, I wasn't trolling but fishing trolls.
I think it's the easiest thing to do there.
Have a great day.
Can you close the thread ?
There is nothing to argue the two guys explain very well what it's about.
G Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
G Ab Bb B C# D E F
But since I don't belong to any team here and since nobody knows me.
This is the textbook definition of trolling. Please stop. I’ve been trying to give benefit of doubt based on language differences, but at this point you’ve made your intentions completely clear, and they are not in line with the Terms of Service of our site.
I could, but I’m choosing not to. The discussion of altered dominant chords in harmonic context is a very valuable topic that is far too overlooked. As @Papageno mentions above, certain harmonic functions suggest different color tone possibilities.
I never thought of it as a Phrygian with an added 3rd, but rather as a tonic natural minor with an added leading tone. Potato, potahto… But both work, and I learned a new way to think of this sound today that might get through to some students, so I’m calling that a win.
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This thread is a true example of why I put this member on my Ignoring list, FWIW.
That‘s what I meant.
You can have different perspectives to describe it. The one I gave is one of them but I can see it in different ways.
But I wouldn’t relate your example to C major but to A minor.
I just wanted to mention (mostly to Lionel) that there are not only two scales that should be discussed in that context but at least one more, as Lionel gave the impression that there are only two.
The fifth mode of harmonic minor is also called 7-note Spanish Phrygian.
I have my own shorthand system to describe scales for or instead of chords, specially for those that don‘t have a well known common name:
Root note (eventually with extensions/modifiers),
m for melodic, h for harmonic (describes the sixth),
Maj or Min (describes the third),
and the mode in Roman number (describes the number in the basic scale structure that the root note is)
Example:
„C hMaj III“ is C Db Eb Fb G Ab Bb C
the third mode of Ab harmonic Major.
(It is not E but Fb. You won’t have one basic pitch doubled and one missing in a seven note scale.
If you don‘t like the Fb, see it as B# Maj III from G# harmonic Major. But horns will hate that …)
Even if you do not know the interval structure of a scale name you can always derive it from my naming scheme.
Of course well known scales as what could be described as the modes of melodic major (which is plain major) and a few more like alt., dim, domdim and wholetone are probably more practical to use than my naming scheme, but for any other scale (23 more) I prefer not to learn different names for the same thing like Dorian #4 or Lydian b7 for the so-called „overtone“ scale but simply mMin IV.
Some other scales might need even more than one modifier and generate much more confusing descriptions.
I‘m collecting scale names for scale structures and some names are even used for different scale structures by different people. This is really bad. It is nice to have such a reference to look-up, but I would never get them all in my head and doing that doesn‘t make sense to me.
BTW, seven note scales are always easier to sing than any so called „symmetrical“ scale (which really is a scale with repetitive sub interval structures like diminished, dominant-diminished or wholetone scale, there is no symmetry in any mathematical sense).
