Don’t End Up Like Me

[bluewine]

Due to poor planning and wanting to get back in a band sooooo bad, I am now involved in 2 start ups that will probably go nowhere.

I hate to belabor this topic, but it’s something that we can’t discuss enough. And while depending on age, experience and location this might not be an issue for you, but I think it is or will be for a lot of us.

For those of you auditioning, be a lot more diligent when your auditioning bands, not to be confused with bands auditioning you.

Many of you are like me, in the sense that you may have found yourself out of work and you want to get back with a good band so bad you over look a lot of the basics. Even though we know the basics, we can all get caught up in the moment and make bad decisions that have not been thought out.

This thread is geared toward seasoned players looking for bands that are working and generating income.

• While there could be some exceptions, I don’t think seasoned guys that have been in bands doing shows 4 times a month should waste their time with
Start Ups

• Scrutinize that first phone call with the band leader, ask tough questions;

Why is there an opening, what happened with the last guy, how long has the band been together, describe the experience level of the band (not just musicianship or chops, but experience doing shows) Also, don’t be shy about asking about the skill level of the drummer. This is reasonable question that any self respecting bass player can ask.

• What do bookings look like for the end of year and going into 2011. Ask for specifics, what date and what venues.
• Who does your bookings , do you work with an agency?
• Be realistic about distance, were not kids any more, does it really make sense to commit to an anything over ½ mile one way for a start up project that might not go anywhere.
• Will you be happy, do all the important things come together.

 

[bassman_al]

My experience is that if the band has no video or audio demos, they probably are not worth the time for the seasoned bassist to bother with. Even homemade video and/or audio can be plenty to tell all you need to know. Plus, if they have no demos, they won't be getting many decent gigs. My 2 cents anyway...

 

[bluewine]

My experience is that if the band has no video or audio demos, they probably are not worth the time for the seasoned bassist to bother with. Even homemade video and/or audio can be plenty to tell all you need to know. Plus, if they have no demos, they won't be getting many decent gigs. My 2 cents anyway...

I agree 100%, believe me I am not going to be shy about asking these guys that post ads tough questions.
if they are offended, then they probably have nothing to offer.

It's so hard to get in with a band that is working and has it together.

 

[g&lplayer]

It's funny you mention this because I'm in this exact situation right now. Just got out of school, and just moved to a new city. Since I don't know anyone, I found a singer/songwriter and guitarist looking to startup a band. They have a good quality demo and three gigs in december, but no drummer yet. Its all originals and well....I'm not a huge fan of their music to say the least. Kinda figured a gig is a gig and so I may as well join and see what happens. Think this was a mistake?

Part of the problem, is that since they are also my age (early 20s) they haven't exactly had TIME to make a name/reputation for themselves. Still though, i've found that I am much more professional and have a lot more experience than them. Hope their lack of experience doesn't come back to bite me.

Sorry to ramble, just had to mention this stuff. Would be curious to hear what you think about my situation.

 

[bluewine]

It's funny you mention this because I'm in this exact situation right now. Just got out of school, and just moved to a new city. Since I don't know anyone, I found a singer/songwriter and guitarist looking to startup a band. They have a good quality demo and three gigs in december, but no drummer yet. Its all originals and well....I'm not a huge fan of their music to say the least. Kinda figured a gig is a gig and so I may as well join and see what happens. Think this was a mistake?

Part of the problem, is that since they are also my age (early 20s) they haven't exactly had TIME to make a name/reputation for themselves. Still though, i've found that I am much more professional and have a lot more experience than them. Hope their lack of experience doesn't come back to bite me.

Sorry to ramble, just had to mention this stuff. Would be curious to hear what you think about my situation.

Not at all, you are not rambling. I am working with 2 young
(27) singer song writers in the exact same situations.

I think a lot of us have that a gig is a gig mentality or playing is better than not playing. I am really questioning those values, because thay are not working for me.

For me, I am coming from working with good poeple in a very professional environment. I guess at the time I took it for granted.

 

[bassman_al]

G&L, don't sell yourself short. I always have regretted joining bands that played music that did not appeal to me. Unfortunately, I am not accomplished enough to be too picky, but I definitely could have been more picky than I was, especially going back to my earlier days (20's). Find something you like, or you will find yourself looking for a new band sooner than you wanted!

 

[bassbully]

Blue,

You know I have been in your corner more than most on this forum. I belive you don't mean allot of things you say and sometimes you are judged for comments you make. Some of the things you do say which I disagree with is Ok..you have the right.

What I still dont understand is why? Why? someone with experience as you would waste their time with any start up act or band?
To me start ups are for new players,old players looking to get back into playing or guys who are not really committed. A true "start up band is not really a start up. They are experienced players who form, get it down quickly and know the ropes...no lag. These cats can really pick up and play in a week or two many less...thats not a start up.

I have told you I have no interest as you also said in past posts and PM's of start ups and wanna'be bands, but here you are..why?
I know you are trying hard to get back out and play. Do you think this will happen quickly in a start up...nope! So why go there?
I told you about my list..tough questions that I need to know before I would start my car to go to any audition. I dont think you thought about that list or even your questions to outlined today.
Now you are in a position that you have to decide...do I stay ..or do I go? You have to let these folks know and thats not fun for anyone. If you stay..How long? How long will you keep going on until you see if its going to pan out? Let's say it does but takes months..are you down for that?

I also suggested you try a new music style , closer to your age range and look. Blues, classic rock, R&B, oldies. You keep looking for younger Pop rock which has allot of issues on age, gender,looks,experience etc..another roadblock. You feel a "sexy image" is important to market..a hot female lead Not so. People want good music...period. Remember most of the older cats out there playing the kinds of music I and others have suggested are set in their ways so to speak with their lives, job, etc. they just want to gig a few times a month and are normally committed to it like a golf ,bowling league. Most of these bands get good paydays and stay busy..something you want.

Here is again my final advice. Use the list, Find a music that fits you at this point in your life, take your time looking...dont jump at any band. Life is too short to make bad music or to waste your time as IMO you have done.
Sorry to come down so hard..Its not my intension. Its just hard to see someone struggle at something like this when so many have given you good direction and advice in the past.

 

[bassman_al]

Bassbully, thanks for the very refreshing post. To the point, fair, direct and honest. And you did it all respectfully. Not easy to read for me, as a 43 year old. Nobody likes to admit they have aged out of a music genre. But its true. All 3 of my basses have flats, for the first time ever. I think I have come to some acceptance of who I am and what I should be playing. However old you are, you have wisdom!

 

[MatticusMania]

Due to poor planning and wanting to get back in a band sooooo bad, I am now involved in 2 start ups that will probably go nowhere.

Your problem is youre already dooming yourself from the start. Instead of the poor "this startup band will probably go nowhere" attitude you should use your knowledge and experience to help further them along.

The startup band I created 2 years ago had a show the night after our first rehearsal. We've regularly played 4+ shows a month.

Then, at the end of Oct. I joined a friends band. He's played a while, but 2 members are completely unexperienced when it comes to being in a band. Ive been bringing them contacts and sharing what I know about being in a band with these guys. We played a gig last month after I practiced with them 3 times. We've practiced only once together since that gig, and now we have 4 gigs for December.

 

[MatticusMania]

• Be realistic about distance, were not kids any more, does it really make sense to commit to an anything over ½ mile one way for a start up project that might not go anywhere.

Do you seriously mean a half mile away? Or did you mean a half hour?

 

[MatticusMania]

To me start ups are for new players,old players looking to get back into playing or guys who are not really committed. A true "start up band is not really a start up. They are experienced players who form, get it down quickly and know the ropes...no lag. These cats can really pick up and play in a week or two many less...thats not a start up.

I have to disagree on your definition of a start up band. To me, a start up band is any band that has not been playing out previously. It could be with beginners, seasoned pros, or anyone in between. It happens when you turn to a drummer buddy of yours and say "I have this idea, lets start a band". Some are capable of starting up and getting into action quickly, as is the case with experienced players, and others do not, often beginners or people new to the band scene.

 

[jive1]

Your problem is youre already dooming yourself from the start. Instead of the poor "this startup band will probably go nowhere" attitude you should use your knowledge and experience to help further them along.

+1

Expectations and goals are a good thing. If you expect that nothing will come out of it, then your efforts will usually reflect that.


I played a Blues jam once where they put me up there with a 13 year old and a 16 year old who were relatively new to the guitar. I could have been put off by it, since those kids weren't at my level. But since the guys at the jam know me, they put me up there because they know I can keep things together and lead the "band". So, we played our three songs, and y'know what? We didn't sound bad at all, and people gave us compliments.

 

[jive1]

I hate to belabor this topic, but it’s something that we can’t discuss enough.......

You sure about that?

It may be just me, but these audition threads are starting to be like the Friday the 13th movies - too many sequels with the same plot.

Bro, please take the advice that guys like Bassbully and others give you to make a new movie that has a happy ending.

 

[riffmeister]

Wow, loads of emotions going on. Personally, I think there are two ways of seeing this. Either you're a damn good player who is looking for a pro working band to earn a living (or to supplement your lifestyle) or you just want to play, regardless, as it's always been your life. Me, I'm 53, played in a few bands over the last 40 years and after a small break have got going again in a local covers band for the last year or so. We gig once or twice a month, get paid the usual pub/club rate and lug our gear into the cars and go home again. The bottom line is - get out there and play, anywhere to anyone and ENJOY IT !! One life baby, that's it. Stop whingeing. Oh, and Merry Xmas !! 2011 - get out there.

 

[bluewine]

Your problem is youre already dooming yourself from the start. Instead of the poor "this startup band will probably go nowhere" attitude you should use your knowledge and experience to help further them along..

I think thats great, however it's not me.It's not anything I would be good at. I do agree that under normal circumstances, it's what a guy with my experience and at my age should be doing.

 

[jnuts1]

ya know i have said i will never join a start up because they never get going. but now i am starting a band myself! but i have played with everyone i am recruiting & they are all great players & i expect them to learn my demos & be ready to record in 2 weeks at most. so i would say it is a start up even though once the demos are done the ball will be rolling rather quickly.

 

[aztomr]

If I understand what you are saying, you won't audition for a band that has not played out before? You need a band that did all the work of getting musicians together, worked out a set list, got gigs and then the original bass player quits or gets fired, so that you can have his slot? Am I missing something? Form a band, audition drummers and guitarists, make it the perfect band for you, otherwise I can't be simpathetic to your situation. Its seems you want alot more than you are willing to give.

 

[bassbully]

Bassbully, thanks for the very refreshing post. To the point, fair, direct and honest. And you did it all respectfully. Not easy to read for me, as a 43 year old. Nobody likes to admit they have aged out of a music genre. But its true. All 3 of my basses have flats, for the first time ever. I think I have come to some acceptance of who I am and what I should be playing. However old you are, you have wisdom!

Thanks! Will be 49 (God willing) in January. I got allot of advice right here on this forum years back when I was kind of in Blues's shoe's. I wasted a little time and soon found out even if I was a decent bass player there were allot of offers to play in diffrent groups.
The problem was allot of these groups were going nowhere and were huge time wasters. I got back into giging and playing at about 40 after not playing since my last HS band when I was 18. I woodsheded and at every audition was offered a gig..but so many of the bands were bad, had a bad hang or I knew would take too long to develop into something , time I didnt have. I wanted to gig now. I spent 6 months with a start up band to finally getting them gigs. These guys were all semi -experenced but unmotivated to do anything. After a few gigs I seen the writing on the wall and left. Today after a few other good bands I am in the best one I have ever been in..how long? who knows? all I know for now its all good and I'm happy.

The one thing I quickly learned is how to screen bands that dont have anything going on for me. To others they might be great. My advice to Blue is different than say a guy who has played for a year. Blue wants to gig...right? Then find an established band thats giging and looking for a replacement bassist ..not forming a band.

 

[bassbully]

I have to disagree on your definition of a start up band. To me, a start up band is any band that has not been playing out previously. It could be with beginners, seasoned pros, or anyone in between. It happens when you turn to a drummer buddy of yours and say "I have this idea, lets start a band". Some are capable of starting up and getting into action quickly, as is the case with experienced players, and others do not, often beginners or people new to the band scene.

I see your point. I had a hard time discribing that in the post. A true start up to me un-experienced players for the most part. Me and Bobby my old drummer starting up a new project IMO isnt a start up. We just need a few experienced cats and its gig time after a few practices.

 

[bassbully]

ya know i have said i will never join a start up because they never get going. but now i am starting a band myself! but i have played with everyone i am recruiting & they are all great players & i expect them to learn my demos & be ready to record in 2 weeks at most. so i would say it is a start up even though once the demos are done the ball will be rolling rather quickly.

Your band is a great example of what I was trying to say ...but failed. Yours group isnt a start up band IMO its guys going in a different direction or project that will gel quickly.