Don’t End Up Like Me

[pklima]

I still love the feel of rockin in a cool club when things are going right, I love playing bass, love wearing trendy clothes. I was just so happy that an old MFer like me can still get out and get down a little.

I'm with you on that one. You don't have to play "old guy music" if you don't want to. Sure your odds of finding a good band will improve with "old guy music", but that improvement might or might not be worth it for you. You have to decide that.

A lot of people will take a mediocre band doing stuff they like over a good band playing stuff they don't like. Nothing wrong with that. If I wanted to dress and behave like a respectable adult I don't need a jazz band for that - I could just go to work, haha.

 

[fdeck]

Thats what I'm talking about.

You nailed another important piece.While I have decided that start ups are not for me, I do think that leadership is extremely important.

And I think you will all agree that just because a band has a leader, it doesn't mean they have leadership.

Agreed, but "leadership without a leader" is harder than with a leader. If a band doesn't have a leader, it probably doesn't have leadership. My typical response is: "Get your songs together, get them rehearsed, plan how you're going to launch your band, then call me when you really need a bass player." Though I usually say it less bluntly than that.

 

[troy mcclure]

I kinda agree with Blue to a point..I would never join a band without a reputation or gigs on the book again...but I am leaving a gigging band band ( 5 -8 nights a month) to start a new band with the same players and different singer..it isn't a start up exactly but we are cleaning our gig calendar. Scary proposition but we feel we peaked with the old singer and we are going to see if a better frontman can get us better paying gigs. ( we can also add a variety of music we couldn't previous play with our singers voice limitations)

 

[bluewine]

I'm really missing something here. This is at least the third thread you have started to counsel us about proper auditioning procedure. Then you come in and talk about all the screwed-up situations you end up in. (Note the two consecutive hanging prepositions.) Are you not following your own advice, or just cautioning us not to do what you do?

Hey, I am a bass player, I wish i did a better job of following my own advice.

Like a lot of people I get caught up in the moment and make bad decisions from time to time..

 

[bluewine]

Blue,

I actually remember when you first joined the Talkbass forums and were looking for guidance. You wanted to know how an older cat such as yourself could get back into the game, play out, and hopefully make some decent money while you were at it. I remember the PM's you would send myself and others, and I remembered all the questions you'd ask.

In recent months, however, you've been starting threads from a much different perspective. You've been angling them as if you've been in the game for years, knew the ends and outs of the business, and were a genuine, seasoned pro. It honestly seems as if you believe you're deserving of a band that's playing sold out shows multiple times a week. It also seems that you've been turning your back on the

I see where your coming from. I agree. I am really confused about what I want.

And really, while my post can get kind of weird, I don't think I deserve or have a right to anything. I just want the right spot with the right people under circumstances that are good for me right now.

For me to get the right opportunity it's going to take time.I really have to get it together.

I'm kind of lost right now.

 

[bluewine]

Guys, I’m not really that interesting.

I appreciate the help, no one needs it more than me. However I wanted this thread to generate new discussion about and with other TBers that are either auditioning or will be auditioning. Not so much focus on what I am going through. It’s not secret that I’m coming out of left field half the time.

The audition process and the learning curve changes every time your back up at the plate. Even for our experienced veterans.

A curve ball can be thrown at any of us. Are you prepared?

 

[jive1]

I see where your coming from. I agree. I am really confused about what I want.

And really, while my post can get kind of weird, I don't think I deserve or have a right to anything. I just want the right spot with the right people under circumstances that are good for me right now.

For me to get the right opportunity it's going to take time.I really have to get it together.

I'm kind of lost right now.

When you're confused, the thing to do is to reduce your criteria to the 2 or 3 most important to you and stick with that.

 

[Blueszilla]

I am just not sure that our open mic scene is a place for an aging local Pop Rock Artist like me to get noticed. I'm just not sure.

There is maybe one club that I might go to pull that Hillary Duff thing off again with my drummer friend.

You are 100% right. I auditioned for 2 very heavy hitting bands, and got rejected by both. Not that my audition went south, I just was not and still not a member of the inner club here locally.

Like you said,these bands have good bass players with vocals waiting in the wings at all times.

It seems to me you're reinforcing my point.

Open mics are one avenue, but showing up to watch live music, maybe a band you admire or may like to play with, is another one. Go to a show, introduce yourself, talk some shop, maybe give them a card. Let them know you're available if they ever need a sub, whatever. Make friends with the bassist, ask him for his number/card, see if he would sub for you if needed. You're not there to steal his gig, but to network and have them see your face. You show up to one or two more shows and they know you. 90% percent of success is just showing up regularly.

There are many avenues to becoming a well known, in demand player, and most are not named 'best player ever'. If you ask a lot of the seasoned vets on this board, I'd wager they'll say getting the gig is more about showing up on time, nailing your parts (play the spaces, please!) and generally portraying a pro attitude. That includes not being a slob, a drunk, or a wanker. Return phone calls, don't be a flake.

This isn't news, I imagine you know this already.

IMHO, there is no substitute for meeting folks in person. When you speak to someone (and they to you) and look in their eyes, a lot more communication happens than just information exchange. If you worry about being 'an aging local Pop Rock Artist', or how it looks to others, that's a baseless fear. You don't have any idea what they think, so it doesn't matter. All that matters is what you think. Be confident, not cocky. If you want to be in the 'inner circle', well, IMO, you just gotta push your way in...with a smile and a handshake.

IME, there is no 'one way' to find the right situation, but a lot of this worked for me and a few others I know. I have no delusions of stardom, I just enjoy playing with others, keeps me from watching too much TV. All I know is I'm an average player at best, but I don't seem to want for work.

::knocks on wood::

 

[bassbully]

You know looking back since I got back into music about 10 years ago It has taken almost all those years to progress to where I am today.
It started in a pretty simple, startup classic rock band, moved to a female fronted hard/rock covers/originals band, then an experienced start up that died quickly. I then grew frustrated and switched grears to a good country band (older cats) where I got the most experience in music I could ever hope for.
This all helped land me in the original Americana band I am in today. Along the way I learned allot, How the scene worked, booking, gigging, band politics, managers, owners , Press, PR, Recording and performing.

It all has been a great ride but I am far from over at 48 soon to be 49 and have a ton to learn..still a rookie. I know my place and where I fit as a player. I grew as a player and performer and know my limits and no matter where I might want to go I have to be honest to myself, my family , my lifestle and stay what I am.

I think like myself Blue and others struggling need to look back and see where they have been as a bassist, where they fit and really in their hearts need to go.

 

[bluewine]

My question to all, if a band has something to offer and nothing to hide or embellish would they be ticked by this letter?

Funny, I never have had problems getting responses from bands, however I have used this letter several time within the last 2 weeks and nobody has gotten back to me. And you know what, that’s really just fine.

Dear Band Leader;

I want to be sure we are on the same page. Your ad indicates you are an established band seek an experienced bass player

So we don’t waste each others time. Would you be willing to address the following;

How long has the band been together, in other words tell me what you mean by “established”

Why is the position open (share what you can)

Tell me a little about the level of playing (gigging )experience of the band members

Do you have “show ready” material, if yes how many sets

Who does the booking, are you working with an agency

Ball Park figure, how many shows did the band do in 2010, name a few of the venues

What do you have booked for 2011.

I don’t mean to interrogate you, it’s just that I have not asked these important questions prior to auditioning for other bands that post ads here. And come audition time it was easy to figure out that the guys didn’t have much to offer.

 

[bassbully]

Bluezilla is so right in that last post. Getting out in the local scene and getting known is all about being you and not coming across and something your not. Be honest ,upfront and friendly. Folks will find out about you in time and when that sub gig comes or maybe the opening in a hot local band..you might get that call.

I got a call a few weeks ago to sub for a country band that only seen me play one show about 4 years ago. They called me once a few years ago and I had never heard from them again. I got the call this time and was quite shocked that the drummer still had my number and that I was still on their sub list. He said he knew I was a good guy and solid player and said he will call if he has an opening ever again even though I couldnt take this last one he offered.

I have had other offers form a few folks in good groups that have never seen me play.They know me from others and from me getting to know them and just being me...honest and open about myself and what kind of player I am. Try it.

 

[LaklandBass]

Don't think you've "ended up" anywhere. There's plenty more to come & it's a long ways from being over. You've got to make yourself believe that the best is yet to come.

When I was 25, I thought I was about over the hill (at least cresting it). That turned out to be dead wrong.

Best post ive seen here.

 

[LaklandBass]

My question to all, if a band has something to offer and nothing to hide or embellish would they be ticked by this letter?

Funny, I never have had problems getting responses from bands, however I have used this letter several time within the last 2 weeks and nobody has gotten back to me. And you know what, that’s really just fine.

Dear Band Leader;

I want to be sure we are on the same page. Your ad indicates you are an established band seek an experienced bass player

So we don’t waste each others time. Would you be willing to address the following;

How long has the band been together, in other words tell me what you mean by “established”

Why is the position open (share what you can)

Tell me a little about the level of playing (gigging )experience of the band members

Do you have “show ready” material, if yes how many sets

Who does the booking, are you working with an agency

Ball Park figure, how many shows did the band do in 2010, name a few of the venues

What do you have booked for 2011.

I don’t mean to interrogate you, it’s just that I have not asked these important questions prior to auditioning for other bands that post ads here. And come audition time it was easy to figure out that the guys didn’t have much to offer.

I think that is VERY reasonable and personally I would love a response like that because I'd know that the dude was serious.

 

[bassbully]

My question to all, if a band has something to offer and nothing to hide or embellish would they be ticked by this letter?

Funny, I never have had problems getting responses from bands, however I have used this letter several time within the last 2 weeks and nobody has gotten back to me. And you know what, that’s really just fine.

Dear Band Leader;

I want to be sure we are on the same page. Your ad indicates you are an established band seek an experienced bass player

So we don’t waste each others time. Would you be willing to address the following;

How long has the band been together, in other words tell me what you mean by “established”

Why is the position open (share what you can)

Tell me a little about the level of playing (gigging )experience of the band members

Do you have “show ready” material, if yes how many sets

Who does the booking, are you working with an agency

Ball Park figure, how many shows did the band do in 2010, name a few of the venues

What do you have booked for 2011.

I don’t mean to interrogate you, it’s just that I have not asked these important questions prior to auditioning for other bands that post ads here. And come audition time it was easy to figure out that the guys didn’t have much to offer.

I could see some running scared of this and others having no issue. I prefer to ask these questions at least by phone after I introduce myself and give them a low down on my background ,experience etc. Kind of like a job interview. Let them ask the questions first ..answer, then its your turn to ask back on any questions you have about the band. This way you have told them all about you and they have a overall picture of what you are about.
If you fire questions before they know who you are you might scare a good band away thinking you are ego driven ,difficult etc.

Since you have had no responces in two week..maybe it weeded out bands you wouldnt want a part of so its working? You might also try a diffrent approach than the letter and respond like I do.

 

[Passinwind]

My question to all, if a band has something to offer and nothing to hide or embellish would they be ticked by this letter?

Dunno, but if they meet all your criteria it should be pretty easy for you to find out most of that stuff on your own. Personally, I just go see guys I might want to work with play. If they're not playing anywhere we have nothing to talk about anyway.

Now what happens when a band asks you the same questions?

 

[Tampabass]

I'm really missing something here. This is at least the third thread you have started to counsel us about proper auditioning procedure. Then you come in and talk about all the screwed-up situations you end up in. (Note the two consecutive hanging prepositions.) Are you not following your own advice, or just cautioning us not to do what you do?

My sentiments exactly. So many questions.

If you followed your own advice, then how did you end up in two bands that are "going nowhere"?

And if you are really in two bands that are dead ends, then why don't you quit and find more promising opportunities? If the two bands are true "start-ups," then there's certainly no financial incentive for you to stay with them.

And do you expect to achieve success or even musical satisfaction with two groups of players that you've already decided are "going nowhere"?

No offense, etc., but I'm thinking the best person to give valuable advice about auditioning would be someone who has had multiple great experiences auditioning for and performing with good bands.

Sorry if that's harsh, but these threads are really puzzling.

 

[Blueszilla]

My question to all, if a band has something to offer and nothing to hide or embellish would they be ticked by this letter?

Perhaps you're overthinking this? Instead of making lots of assumptions about what people (or even yourself) might expect, maybe just show up and see what's up. Even if they answer your questions to your liking, there's no guarantee it'll be a joyous time for all. Maybe they lied.

Are you asking so many bands or have so many opportunities you need a questionnaire to weed out the losers? Read the ads and trust your instincts, you'll know, or at least suspect, if something isn't a good fit. Nothing wrong with going to an audition and not having it work out. You meet somewhat like minded folks, one of which may leave this band and remember you for another they join. If you think before hand the experience will suck, then it will.

I may be in the minority, but IMO the only way to know if a player is worth working with, is to play with them. More aspects of their behavior/personality will be evident within the context of making music together. I'll take someone with less ability if they aren't an asshat, or learn quickly and take direction, over the chops meister who shows up late and doesn't practice. Sometimes it takes a bunch of tries before you get the right one. Ever shop for a Fender bass?

 

[bassbully]

Perhaps you're overthinking this? Instead of making lots of assumptions about what people (or even yourself) might expect, maybe just show up and see what's up. Even if they answer your questions to your liking, there's no guarantee it'll be a joyous time for all. Maybe they lied.

Are you asking so many bands or have so many opportunities you need a questionnaire to weed out the losers? Read the ads and trust your instincts, you'll know, or at least suspect, if something isn't a good fit. Nothing wrong with going to an audition and not having it work out. You meet somewhat like minded folks, one of which may leave this band and remember you for another they join. If you think before hand the experience will suck, then it will.

I may be in the minority, but IMO the only way to know if a player is worth working with, is to play with them. More aspects of their behavior/personality will be evident within the context of making music together. I'll take someone with less ability if they aren't an asshat, or learn quickly and take direction, over the chops meister who shows up late and doesn't practice. Sometimes it takes a bunch of tries before you get the right one. Ever shop for a Fender bass?

While I agree somewhat I am a screener before I will ever go to an audition. I think my past employment makes me very good at asking the tough questions in a way that most dont get spooked. I can tell in a phone call if it is someone I would want to meet and sit with. My time is too important to waste with not getting enough facts to form a picture of if this sounds like a waste of time or if it's somebody and something I would want to go investigate.

 

[Blueszilla]

I'm not saying answer every ad, screening is necessary, and you can do that without submitting an application. A simple phone conversation might be enough to understand if it's not the right situation, but may not tell you if it is.

Look, I wouldn't go to just any audition, as I'm sure you or he wouldn't either. Gotta have something compelling or why waste your time.

Just sayin', for me the simpler the process the better. Asking those questions in person or on the phone might be appropriate. Asking in an email or other non verbal way, well, I wouldn't do it.

IMHO.

 

[jive1]

One thing to consider is what are you willing to put up with?

Everyone would love to be in a perfect band, but there isn't a perfect band out there because they are composed of imperfect people.

In order to be in a band, or any situation that requires you to work with people, you have to be willing to bend a little on something. Sometimes it's something big, and if it is you may not want to go there. Sometimes it's something small, and you need to carefully consider whether it's big enough to be a deal breaker.


Another thing to consider is what you are willing to provide to the band. Although a band can contribute to your musical and personal fulfilment, it's usually not the main goal of a working band. So, you have to have something to give them, and be willing to provide it. A band, like any employer wants to see what you can contribute. An employer will be turned off by a candidate when all they hear about is what the company should do or do for them.