Don’t End Up Like Me

[MatticusMania]

Oooops, lets say over 40 minutes.However, there are some bands I would drive an hour to rehearse with.

I had thought you meant about a half hour. Im of the same mindset, I dont really want to be driving a lot for rehearsals, I drive enough for my day job. Both of my bands practice within about 15 minutes of where I live.

 

[Stumbo]

Then you come in and talk about all the screwed-up situations you end up in. (Note the two consecutive hanging prepositions.)

 

[Tampabass]

But in this ever changing world in which we live in (Sir Paul)

 

[mambo4]

... would they be ticked by this letter?
...So we don’t waste each others time. Would you be willing to address the following...
...in other words tell me what you mean by “established”
...I don’t mean to interrogate you, it’s just that I have not asked these important questions prior to auditioning for other bands that post ads here. And come audition time it was easy to figure out that the guys didn’t have much to offer.

honestly, I see a little too much 'editorializing' in your letter. It comes off as a little bitter and arrogant in tone. I would err on the side of professional, short and courteous...

Dear Band Leader;
Your ad indicates you are an established band seek an experienced bass player, and I want to be sure we are on the same page.

How long has the band been together?
*Why is the position open (share what you can)?

*Tell me a little about the level of gigging experience of the band members

*Do you have “show ready” material, if yes how many sets?

Who does the booking, are you working with an agency?

about how many shows did the band do in 2010?
could you name a few of the venues?
*What do you have booked for 2011.?

the questions with the asterisk i might consider dropping, as they may be implied by other answers.

 

[aztomr]

Perhaps its time to ask yourself why you want to play with a band. If its money, I think there are more stable/predictable ways to earn a buck. If its for the love of music, then why won't you join a band that is starting out? Are you so good that a band without gigs is beneath you? If you are that good,wouldn't you want to join a band that would allow you creative input? The more established a band is the less influence you will have on song selection,etc.. What is it that you want from playing music?

 

[bluewine]

Dunno, but if they meet all your criteria it should be pretty easy for you to find out most of that stuff on your own. Personally, I just go see guys I might want to work with play. If they're not playing anywhere we have nothing to talk about anyway.

Now what happens when a band asks you the same questions?

I would tell them about my most recent experience, because it would include respectable club, festival and recording experience.

I am not going lie about anything. I know how TBers think even about stretching the truth.

I have some vids of me in acton I would share, not the best but nothing I am ashamed of.I look professional and quite animated.

 

[bluewine]

honestly, I see a little too much 'editorializing' in your letter. It comes off as a little bitter and arrogant in tone. I would err on the side of professional, short and courteous...



I was drawing off the feelings and emotions I had when I was burnt by a bunch of wanna bees with nothing going on at a recent audition


I agree, it does seem bitter, but I do qualify the bitterness at the end.

 

[bluewine]

Perhaps its time to ask yourself why you want to play with a band. If its money, I think there are more stable/predictable ways to earn a buck. If its for the love of music, then why won't you join a band that is starting out? Are you so good that a band without gigs is beneath you? If you are that good,wouldn't you want to join a band that would allow you creative input? The more established a band is the less influence you will have on song selection,etc.. What is it that you want from playing music?

I am 57, I am never goin to get rich or famous from playing. I do it because I love the act of live performance (in the right band).

Yes,at this time, I think I am too good to play in a band that is not working. However, I don't think a band without gigs is beneath me. I just wouldn't play with that type of band.

 

[bluewine]

Bluezilla is so right in that last post. Getting out in the local scene and getting known is all about being you and not coming across and something your not. Be honest ,upfront and friendly. Folks will find out about you in time and when that sub gig comes or maybe the opening in a hot local band..you might get that call.

I got a call a few weeks ago to sub for a country band that only seen me play one show about 4 years ago. They called me once a few years ago and I had never heard from them again. I got the call this time and was quite shocked that the drummer still had my number and that I was still on their sub list. He said he knew I was a good guy and solid player and said he will call if he has an opening ever again even though I couldnt take this last one he offered.

I have had other offers form a few folks in good groups that have never seen me play.They know me from others and from me getting to know them and just being me...honest and open about myself and what kind of player I am. Try it.

I agree, and when I was n my last band we did all those 2-3 band shows and I met a lot of people.

It was crazy because at the time i was going out with an attractive lady 31 years younger than me. After a night or a weekend of being in clubs and being seen with her.I would walk into a local music store and all these guys, local guys, musicians that would normally not say much to me were all around me. You know they just wanted to chat and talk BS.I felt like a local celebrity.But, it didn't last long.

As a side note I got a suprise call. A guy I had done a benefit show with, his band is looking for a bass player. He knew from my FaceBook page that I have been out looking. They are a working band and I might get considered for an audition. Yay for me

 

[EBodious]

Perhaps you're overthinking this? Instead of making lots of assumptions about what people (or even yourself) might expect, maybe just show up and see what's up. Even if they answer your questions to your liking, there's no guarantee it'll be a joyous time for all. Maybe they lied.

Are you asking so many bands or have so many opportunities you need a questionnaire to weed out the losers? Read the ads and trust your instincts, you'll know, or at least suspect, if something isn't a good fit. Nothing wrong with going to an audition and not having it work out. You meet somewhat like minded folks, one of which may leave this band and remember you for another they join. If you think before hand the experience will suck, then it will.

I may be in the minority, but IMO the only way to know if a player is worth working with, is to play with them. More aspects of their behavior/personality will be evident within the context of making music together. I'll take someone with less ability if they aren't an asshat, or learn quickly and take direction, over the chops meister who shows up late and doesn't practice. Sometimes it takes a bunch of tries before you get the right one. Ever shop for a Fender bass?

this. so much, this.

As a side note I got a suprise call. A guy I had done a benefit show with, his band is looking for a bass player. He knew from my FaceBook page that I have been out looking. They are a working band and I might get considered for an audition. Yay for me

awesome. you never know how the pieces will fall together.

 

[bluewine]

From some of the responses I was thinking about how you feel about these choices.

Which direction would you go.

• A working band , established with work but not musically your cup of tea
• Start up with no guarantee of work but you like the music

 

[jmattbassplaya]

From some of the responses I was thinking about how you feel about these choices.

Which direction would you go.

• A working band , established with work but not musically your cup of tea
• Start up with no guarantee of work but you like the music

I'll post a criteria list that another TBer posted a few years ago. I think it really helps someone considering a band determine whether or not it is really worth their time.

1. Do you like the music?
2. Do you like the musicians?
3. Are they gigging as much as you'd like to be?

If you can say yes to at least 2 of those then the band is worth your time. If you can say yes to all 3 then that's a band you should cling on to for dear life If you can only say yes to one of those then you should skip over the band.

 

[jive1]

I am not going lie about anything. I know how TBers think even about stretching the truth.

Don't be honest because of some guys on TB that you never met. Be honest because it's in your best interest. Honesty will help you get into the 'inner circle'. People in the 'inner circle' have been around the block and have experience in the music biz, which means they often can smell bulls*** a mile away.

 

[bluewine]

I'll post a criteria list that another TBer posted a few years ago. I think it really helps someone considering a band determine whether or not it is really worth their time.

1. Do you like the music?
2. Do you like the musicians?
3. Are they gigging as much as you'd like to be?

If you can say yes to at least 2 of those then the band is worth your time. If you can say yes to all 3 then that's a band you should cling on to for dear life If you can only say yes to one of those then you should skip over the band.

Looks like a good plan, it might be a little over simplified.

For example, "Do you like the Musicians?"

Does that mean are you cool with the people in the band. If yes that is not something you can answer imediately.

It takes time to get to know people. Sometimes guys don't become jerks until after the fact.

Then there was the member you liked until you started noticing a trend where he shows up for practice not knowing the new material.

Or the guy that thinks it's funny to fart at rehearsal, but nobody has the guts to tell him he's disgusting. BTW if your doing this, unless your 14, stop it.

 

[Sundogue]

Blue,

You know I have been in your corner more than most on this forum. I belive you don't mean allot of things you say and sometimes you are judged for comments you make. Some of the things you do say which I disagree with is Ok..you have the right.

What I still dont understand is why? Why? someone with experience as you would waste their time with any start up act or band?
To me start ups are for new players,old players looking to get back into playing or guys who are not really committed. A true "start up band is not really a start up. They are experienced players who form, get it down quickly and know the ropes...no lag. These cats can really pick up and play in a week or two many less...thats not a start up.

I have told you I have no interest as you also said in past posts and PM's of start ups and wanna'be bands, but here you are..why?
I know you are trying hard to get back out and play. Do you think this will happen quickly in a start up...nope! So why go there?
I told you about my list..tough questions that I need to know before I would start my car to go to any audition. I dont think you thought about that list or even your questions to outlined today.
Now you are in a position that you have to decide...do I stay ..or do I go? You have to let these folks know and thats not fun for anyone. If you stay..How long? How long will you keep going on until you see if its going to pan out? Let's say it does but takes months..are you down for that?

I also suggested you try a new music style , closer to your age range and look. Blues, classic rock, R&B, oldies. You keep looking for younger Pop rock which has allot of issues on age, gender,looks,experience etc..another roadblock. You feel a "sexy image" is important to market..a hot female lead Not so. People want good music...period. Remember most of the older cats out there playing the kinds of music I and others have suggested are set in their ways so to speak with their lives, job, etc. they just want to gig a few times a month and are normally committed to it like a golf ,bowling league. Most of these bands get good paydays and stay busy..something you want.

Here is again my final advice. Use the list, Find a music that fits you at this point in your life, take your time looking...dont jump at any band. Life is too short to make bad music or to waste your time as IMO you have done.
Sorry to come down so hard..Its not my intension. Its just hard to see someone struggle at something like this when so many have given you good direction and advice in the past.

Man, this is all so damned true!

I just left a cover band because turning 50 leaves me scratching my head wondering why I'm still playing the music of my youth that's all about partying and girls...sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.

I'm happily married with four kids and like the OP I decided I wanted to startup a new band of my own, doing music that appeals to me. But what happened for me, was instead of doing this auditioning thing and trying to do a "startup", I realized that I already had plenty of connections over the years and that the ideal musicians were all around me. Same age range, same station in life as it were...and Bingo! A new blues band was formed in very short order.

And the style of music makes the most sense with where we're all at in life. Blues is about life in general, with lots of experience and emotion to draw from without pandering to the limited scope of the youth. The genre knows no age limitation (let's face it, even Keith and Mick look kind of foolish on stage these days) and for me I'm playing music that has meaning way beyond just another gig for money thing, with no foolish ideas of our originals being anything more than just something recorded for posterity's sake and the fulfillment that comes from a night of great music.

Take stock of where you are at in life and forget about what you used to be. Everything you want and need to be playing out like you want to is all around you.

 

[jive1]

Or the guy that thinks it's funny to fart at rehearsal, but nobody has the guts to tell him he's disgusting. BTW if your doing this, unless your 14, stop it.

I usually don't fart at rehearsal. I try to save them for a gig.

 

[Sundogue]

I usually don't fart at rehearsal. I try to save them for a gig.

I could see a new thread started on that topic alone.

Oh wait, there already is one...

 

[thudfromafar]

Honestly, I think we need to start an "I read and respond to bluewine's threads" club

It's like always the same people... look bluewine you got a bunch of friends and family here. Or perhaps we call it the "bluewine support group"

 

[butchblack]

It also depends on what you want, though in all honesty Blue, you're probably a more skilled bassist then I.

My current band is a start up. All of us have been in working bands before. Fairly quickly at the first rehearsal/audition we realized this could work. One thing we all wanted was a band that was tight and well rehearsed. I've done pick up gigs so I know that good musicians can put together a night's worth of music quickly if not on the fly and sound good. IMHO however, any band will sound better if well rehearsed. Long story short. We've been together about 11 months, we're finally starting to get some gigs in a very tight market and we don't sound like a pick up band.

Addressing your original question. Yes, be very careful in what you choose to get involved in. When I joined my current band I had been in a project with a guitarist with whom I play well with. In 18 months we had 3 gigs 2 of which I got the third was somewhat of a showcase that never produced anything else. I wanted a rehearsed band, the guitarist wanted a pick up band. I stopped trying to book when I realized we would never have a solid line up nor would ever have a full band rehearsal, and those things were/are important to me. It took me almost a year on CL to find my current band. A band that I'm very happy with, it's what I want.

Advise to all. Wait for the right opportunity to come.

 

[bluewine]

Man, this is all so damned true!

I just left a cover band because turning 50 leaves me scratching my head wondering why I'm still playing the music of my youth that's all about partying and girls...sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.

I'm happily married with four kids and like the OP I decided I wanted to startup a new band of my own, doing music that appeals to me. But what happened for me, was instead of doing this auditioning thing and trying to do a "startup", I realized that I already had plenty of connections over the years and that the ideal musicians were all around me. Same age range, same station in life as it were...and Bingo! A new blues band was formed in very short order.

Let's face it, even Keith and Mick look kind of foolish on stage these days)


I am happy for you, but it's no secret that you won't see me in any kind of blues anything.

I went through all that blues stuff back in the 70s.It's cool for some but not me. I am going to do the Pop Rock thing until they haul me off in a wheel chair.

BTW, I think Mick , Keith and Ron look awesome on stage.At least there is one band where the guys still look like Rock Stars.