Don’t know how to proceed here.

[evlwevl]

I joined a lead and rhythm guitarist 3 years ago just to mess around and jam. Eventually we got more serious and found a drummer who initially was good but eventually didn’t work out. We found a new drummer and threw together a lengthy set and played our first gig. The venue owner was overjoyed, tripled our gig payout and invited us back for several more shows.
Now to the problem, we have been having issues with or drummer who is now having trouble giving us a steady beat which I’ve noticed has been changing +/- 10 bpm during some songs. He is forgetting drumming patterns And also continuing to drum past the last note of some songs during practice. Our rhythm guitarist has been throwing clam after clam to the point we joke that we’re going to have a clam bake after practice. My lead guitarist refuses to play other gigs now if we don’t replace the drummer and the rhythm guitarist. I like both guys and we all get along but we the bigger issue is we don’t have time to replace these guys before the gig but we don’t want to embarrass ourselves either. I don’t know what happed between our first gig and now but we’ve gotten worse as a band. I think the guys think I’m expecting too much but I practice and know the set forward and backwards and I don’t think these guys are practicing. I don’t want to come across as a dictator but the extremely exhausting long practice sessions aren’t yielding any improvement from those two and it’s starting to become not so fun.

 

[Gorn]

Have you told them this?

 

[evlwevl]

Have you told them this?

Yup and they aren’t happy about missing out on other gigs and neither am I but I’m caught in the middle. They don’t know that our band leader may replace them though. I feel they my sabotage the upcoming gig we all agreed to if they knew.

 

[LBS-bass]

They need to practice at home. I would just tell them that it's starting to slide in terms of quality and it would be great if everyone could devote an hour or two each week to keeping things polished. The results of not practicing let everyone in the band down and it's embarrassing when you're sharing a stage with people who play like this.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of players out there who just won't do this, either because they don't have the time or they just don't care enough about quality.

 

[Joe Nerve]

They need to practice at home. I would just tell them that it's starting to slide in terms of quality and it would be great if everyone could devote an hour or two each week to keeping things polished. The results of not practicing let everyone in the band down and it's embarrassing when you're sharing a stage with people who play like this.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of players out there who just won't do this, either because they don't have the time or they just don't care enough about quality.

This is pretty much what I was going to say.

Some people think studio time is where things should be worked out. Others, who are much more respectful, professional, and wise (IMO), practice at home. I've spent a lot of time with the former and resolved many years ago to not involve myself ever again with people who do that. I'm not spending my time and money for OTHERS to learn what they need to learn. I put hours in on my own and expect others to do the same. If they refuse to, they're not musicians I want to be working with.

I'd be crystal clear with the 2 guys not doing their homework. If truly in fear of them sabotaging the gig... wait till its over, and then do whatever you have to do. Clams and tempo changes aren't as noticeable to others as they are to the band. I got recommended for my current band (highest paying gig I ever had) through a guy who saw me at what I think was the worst gig I ever played in my life. It was a cover band horror show with a singer who forgot half the songs, fought on stage with the drummer, there were flubs and trainwrecks all over the place. I was mortified. In the end, it all meant less than nothing.

 

[Michedelic]

I joined a lead and rhythm guitarist 3 years ago just to mess around and jam. Eventually we got more serious and found a drummer who initially was good but eventually didn’t work out. We found a new drummer and threw together a lengthy set and played our first gig. The venue owner was overjoyed, tripled our gig payout and invited us back for several more shows.
Now to the problem, we have been having issues with or drummer who is now having trouble giving us a steady beat which I’ve noticed has been changing +/- 10 bpm during some songs. He is forgetting drumming patterns And also continuing to drum past the last note of some songs during practice. Our rhythm guitarist has been throwing clam after clam to the point we joke that we’re going to have a clam bake after practice. My lead guitarist refuses to play other gigs now if we don’t replace the drummer and the rhythm guitarist. I like both guys and we all get along but we the bigger issue is we don’t have time to replace these guys before the gig but we don’t want to embarrass ourselves either. I don’t know what happed between our first gig and now but we’ve gotten worse as a band. I think the guys think I’m expecting too much but I practice and know the set forward and backwards and I don’t think these guys are practicing. I don’t want to come across as a dictator but the extremely exhausting long practice sessions aren’t yielding any improvement from those two and it’s starting to become not so fun.

Sorry, but unless you can get those two to acknowledge their shortcomings, and commit to improving the situation, you are not only spinning your wheels but are also at the risk of damaging your relationship with the club owner(s). BTW, a thread like this is better served in the “Band Management” category.

 

[turf3]

Are you the band leader? Is it possible to "suspend" the two that aren't cutting the mustard and replace them for a few gigs with some real professionals?

 

[evlwevl]

Are you the band leader? Is it possible to "suspend" the two that aren't cutting the mustard and replace them for a few gigs with some real professionals?

I am not the band leader. I am just a bass player who has offered one on one help for the drummer as well as the rhythm guitarist and who is trying to bring these guys up to speed. Both bandmembers refused help due to time constraints. I’m just thinking they are not as committed as the band leader and myself but also do not know their positions are in jeopardy at this point. Replacement band members are being worked on right now by the band leader but will not be up and ready for gigging for the upcoming shows.

 

[Gustopher]

Rehearsals aren't practice and if people aren't putting in personal time practicing this is what you will get. I will however offer this as well... some people play better live than they do at rehearsal. My band is like this, they don't take rehearsal seriously and it sounds like amateur hour most times, but when we get on stage we are tight and sound great and focused. Who knows? lol

 

[two fingers]

Unfortunately, there's a curve in many amateur bands.

There's excitement and adrenaline building up to the first gig. Everyone is practicing to get ready for the big show. Everyone is sharp first time out live.

Then....

Once you get through that first show, many think they have "arrived". We got through one and nobody got dead. So, we're there. Why bother practicing more? Everything is already "good enough" for live shows. Get off my back. What are you worried about? It's "good enough". We already got a bonus and complements out the wazoo!!!! Relax!

You're not working with pro players. These guys are hacks (even if they are talented). "Pro" is not just talent. It's an attitude. It's knowing your parts. It's showing up on time. It's having a spare.... everything. It's being able to flex when something goes wrong. In short, being a pro means giving a @%&# about EVERYTHING. How you look, how you sound, your reputation, your future, EVERYTHING.

If these people don't, find people who do. Or you'll continue to bang your head against a wall.

I play in a dad band. We do a couple of shows a month +/-. But you know what? We bring our A game every single time. If something goes wrong on stage (which rarely happens) we HAMMER it until it's perfect next time out. In short, we care. So, although we are very much weekend warriors, we are all pro players/singers. Any of us could easily join a polished corporate/private/wedding band hauling in thousands per show and be right at home.

Find those players who are too busy with other things to be in a band for a living, but still want to play as if they are in one. It took me almost two years to put mine together. Worth every minute of the wait.

 

[Wesley R]

Problems with a drummer, how rare. Just handing out a little grief.

Sometimes we need non dramatized language in an open and honest communications. One may find goals are not aligned

Perhaps a quick study of the definitions of rehearsal and practice is called for.

The band could be going through a morphing stage.

Maybe grab the other best player and

 

[Pings Bass]

My $.02: rhythm guitarists are a dime a dozen and a drummer who can't keep time is worse than no drummer at all.

Figure out how to replace them and also keep your commitments where possible.

 

[Zoffy]

They need to practice at home. I would just tell them that it's starting to slide in terms of quality and it would be great if everyone could devote an hour or two each week to keeping things polished. The results of not practicing let everyone in the band down and it's embarrassing when you're sharing a stage with people who play like this.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of players out there who just won't do this, either because they don't have the time or they just don't care enough about quality.

Yeah, this.

When the band decides on a new song or songs, we practice at home so when we get together it's just to refine small things like intros, outros, and what things we may want to tweak. Band practice is not the place to be learning (or relerarning) the songs. The drummer and guitarist need to practice at home. Unless you guys are playing some far-out Frank Zappa, King Crimson, avant-garde music it shouldn't be that big of a time commitment for bandmates to practice at home and come to a rehearsal pretty much dialed in.

 

[Jazzkuma]

My $.02: rhythm guitarists are a dime a dozen and a drummer who can't keep time is worse than no drummer at all.

Figure out how to replace them and also keep your commitments where possible.

I always like to say the band will only be as good as the drummer. It can be worse, but I think the drummer usually sets the ceiling. If that ceiling is too low, then maybe its time to look for a new drummer.

 

[LBS-bass]

Yeah, this.

When the band decides on a new song or songs, we practice at home so when we get together it's just to refine small things like intros, outros, and what things we may want to tweak. Band practice is not the place to be learning (or relerarning) the songs. The drummer and guitarist need to practice at home. Unless you guys are playing some far-out Frank Zappa, King Crimson, avant-garde music it shouldn't be that big of a time commitment for bandmates to practice at home and come to a rehearsal pretty much dialed in.

And, honestly, for most of us, once you know the repertoire, practice for that doesn't need to be extensive. Hit your trouble spots. Practice your turnarounds and breaks, make sure you remember the intros and the endings and the little glitchy things that tripped you up. We're not talking about having to practice entire songs, even. Just make sure you know the material.

 

[BlackVincent52]

I know we're a picky bunch here and everyone always wants to fire everyone else, but I'll go against the grain and say you should try to make it work with what you have.

I would start by identifying what is actually a problem and what isn't and then look for solutions to those problems that don't involve letting the players go.

First, I'd bring in a neutral-party non-musician to listen to a rehearsal. If he or she is able to spot the same things you did, you have a problem. If not, you don't actually have a problem.

If the rhythm guitarist is prone to clams, simplify his parts and/or turn him down in the mix.

If the drummer is only speeding up or only slowing down through the course of a song, just roll with it. If he speeds up and slows down multiple times during a song (a Russian Dragon), you have a problem. Can he use a click?

Putting on a great show that entertains and energizes the crowd is about 10x more important that religiously following a grid, never missing a change, etc. Especially if you are playing "bar rock."

Also consider that whoever you replace these guys with is probably going to come with their own flaws, either as musicians or as people.

 

[BassBrass]

it's time for the strong verbal warning, keep it abstract, like "this isn't going to work if the mistakes don't stop". (that's the non profanity version) A verbal warning is only being polite. Many times a competent someone is Finished or "over it" when it comes to 2nd chances, but the verbal warning is necessary.

 

[Killing Floor]

Sounds like a drummer. You're a bassist, I think you know what you need to do.

 

[evlwevl]

I know we're a picky bunch here and everyone always wants to fire everyone else, but I'll go against the grain and say you should try to make it work with what you have.

I would start by identifying what is actually a problem and what isn't and then look for solutions to those problems that don't involve letting the players go.

First, I'd bring in a neutral-party non-musician to listen to a rehearsal. If he or she is able to spot the same things you did, you have a problem. If not, you don't actually have a problem.

If the rhythm guitarist is prone to clams, simplify his parts and/or turn him down in the mix.

If the drummer is only speeding up or only slowing down through the course of a song, just roll with it. If he speeds up and slows down multiple times during a song (a Russian Dragon), you have a problem. Can he use a click?

Putting on a great show that entertains and energizes the crowd is about 10x more important that religiously following a grid, never missing a change, etc. Especially if you are playing "bar rock."

Also consider that whoever you replace these guys with is probably going to come with their own flaws, either as musicians or as people.

The issue with the drummer to me is that I don’t think he knows the material. He struggles with a few songs in regards to a specific drumming pattern. We’ve tried to get him to work with a click, he says he cannot. I’ve got him to write notes down but sometimes he forgets to read them before rehearsal and forgets how to end a song and I feel like he’s winging it every time. We are now sending him visual cues noting the last note. Other people have come to watch, both musicians and not. No one wants to be critical so we get the same reply “you guys saying great”. My Dad was the first to call out the rhythm player for being choppy. I’ve already told him what I’ve determined the problem to be. He has trouble muting strings and he hovers his finger way too high off the fretboard but he considers himself as a professional. He only knows how to down strum everything and plays with zero dynamics. In certain parts, I’ve suggested simple parts, gave him the three notes to play instead and he purposely added three more notes and ended on an F# while we were playing an F. I really want to keep the band we have but these guys aren’t helping my argument. We get along and have common interests and political beliefs and I’m sure the audience can’t hear the mistakes just as my wife can’t hear them, but I can and my worst fear, is we replace those two with with new guys that are no better and without common interests.

 

[Pings Bass]

I always like to say the band will only be as good as the drummer. It can be worse, but I think the drummer usually sets the ceiling. If that ceiling is too low, then maybe its time to look for a new drummer.

This is certainly true for most forms of popular music. If you've got a good singer and a good drummer, everybody else can be replaced. Some of us would put the bassist in that category, too, but bass is rarely at the front of the mix like drums and vox always are.