Don’t know how to proceed here.

[dbsfgyd1]

I am not the band leader. I am just a bass player who has offered one on one help for the drummer as well as the rhythm guitarist and who is trying to bring these guys up to speed. Both bandmembers refused help due to time constraints. I’m just thinking they are not as committed as the band leader and myself but also do not know their positions are in jeopardy at this point. Replacement band members are being worked on right now by the band leader but will not be up and ready for gigging for the upcoming shows.

‘I would follow up with the BL, and let him know what is going on and what your concerns are. Ultimately, it’s his call and you have no responsibilities other than keeping him apprised of the situation. He should, if he is any sort of leader, let you know how and when he is going to resolve the situation.

If he chooses not to address the problem, I’d give him another one, like finding a new bassist.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Best thing you can do in these situations is to record rehearsal. Plan a time that day or later in the week to sit down with everyone and play it back. It's so much easier to say "Here's the take from last week, here's today, notice how the kick pattern is different?" or "Listen to the end of this song, the second guitar is missing the last note."

If you're not the band leader, talk to them and make your opinion known. You can offer suggestions but if you aren't making the call then all you can do is share your thoughts and be ready to bail if it doesn't work for you. If you aren't getting paid for your time than none of this should be stressing you out. There are plenty of other bands and musicians out there to play with.

 

[evlwevl]

Best thing you can do in these situations is to record rehearsal. Plan a time that day or later in the week to sit down with everyone and play it back. It's so much easier to say "Here's the take from last week, here's today, notice how the kick pattern is different?" or "Listen to the end of this song, the second guitar is missing the last note."

If you're not the band leader, talk to them and make your opinion known. You can offer suggestions but if you aren't making the call then all you can do is share your thoughts and be ready to bail if it doesn't work for you. If you aren't getting paid for your time than none of this should be stressing you out. There are plenty of other bands and musicians out there to play with.

I actually did this. I’ve been recording Our set and sending everyone copies so they can hear what we sound like. Most of these guys are older and do not have good quality sound equipment to hear what I’ve recorded so we spend time during rehearsal so I can play what I’ve recorded. I actually point out the various strumming patterns to show him what works best or where he made mistakes. I show him the difference in particular patterns however he’ll forget and play something new next week. I never know what I’m going to get but he says he’ll work on it.

 

[Ekulati]

Easy. Your drummer and rhythm guitarist are not musicians. They're just guys who happen to own instruments. Your lead guitarist is right.

But what I want to know is how, in these tough live music times, what sounds like a band of fairly inexperienced players managed to "overjoy" a venue owner? What kind of venue? What kind of music? And what exactly did you guys do to make him "overjoyed?"

 

[red_rhino]

I may have missed it; who exactly is the bandleader? (serious question, not snark.) Your commitment to the integrity and professionalism of the band is commendable, but honestly, this is an issue for the bandleader to resolve. I would expect that the BL would also be aware of the problem, but on the off chance they are not, bring it to their attention (along with the "ultimatum" from the lead guitarist) and let them deal with it. The BL will likely enlist your help in that regard.

Whatever you do, DO NOT punt on the gig dates you have lined up. The venue owner doesn't care about your band's internal issues; they have a business to run and don't need someone else's drama. If you try to reschedule due to band issues, you may lose the gig entirely. If your problem members don't step it up, replace one of them and do the gigs anyway. It can't be any worse than it already is, and you'll be taking steps in the right direction. Meanwhile, your remaining problem member may see what's happened and get a clue. If not, replace them next.

Good luck.

 

[evlwevl]

Easy. Your drummer and rhythm guitarist are not musicians. They're just guys who happen to own instruments. Your lead guitarist is right.

But what I want to know is how, in these tough live music times, what sounds like a band of fairly inexperienced players managed to "overjoy" a venue owner? What kind of venue? What kind of music? And what exactly did you guys do to make him "overjoyed?"

A winery that typically has acoustic guitar singer type stuff. We brought our 60’s instrumental surf and rockabilly and originally it didn’t seem to fit the outdoor venue vibe But People soon warmed up to it, we had requests and there was dancing and the wine was flowing who knows? We made minimal mistakes, the kind that if you were not familiar with the song, you wouldn’t have known any better. Everyone for the most part hit Their parts. We originally went into it not quite 100% but it felt like we did better than I expected and the owner must have noticed the crowd was really enjoying it to the point I she came down and gave us two more dates, and now a third. Problem is we can’t seem to hit that magic again since and new issues keep appearing with the same exact set that weren’t there before.

 

[JonathanPDX]

I actually did this. I’ve been recording Our set and sending everyone copies so they can hear what we sound like. Most of these guys are older and do not have good quality sound equipment to hear what I’ve recorded so we spend time during rehearsal so I can play what I’ve recorded. I actually point out the various strumming patterns to show him what works best or where he made mistakes. I show him the difference in particular patterns however he’ll forget and play something new next week. I never know what I’m going to get but he says he’ll work on it.

These guys are not ever going to be what you want them to be. You're going to be continually frustrated in their performance. IMO this is about whether you want to deal with a rebuild and the process of auditioning, choosing, and growing with two new people. For all that effort you might find yourself better off just finding new people to play with who are on the same page.

If the bandleader let this stuff slide once there's no guarantee he won't go right back to this when he replaces these guys with two more slackers. If I were in your shoes, unless the guy was my musical soulmate or a dear friend, I'd bail on this and invest my energy in finding a different group that matched my level of dedication.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I joined a lead and rhythm guitarist 3 years ago just to mess around and jam. Eventually we got more serious and found a drummer who initially was good but eventually didn’t work out. We found a new drummer and threw together a lengthy set and played our first gig. The venue owner was overjoyed, tripled our gig payout and invited us back for several more shows.
Now to the problem, we have been having issues with or drummer who is now having trouble giving us a steady beat which I’ve noticed has been changing +/- 10 bpm during some songs. He is forgetting drumming patterns And also continuing to drum past the last note of some songs during practice. Our rhythm guitarist has been throwing clam after clam to the point we joke that we’re going to have a clam bake after practice. My lead guitarist refuses to play other gigs now if we don’t replace the drummer and the rhythm guitarist. I like both guys and we all get along but we the bigger issue is we don’t have time to replace these guys before the gig but we don’t want to embarrass ourselves either. I don’t know what happed between our first gig and now but we’ve gotten worse as a band. I think the guys think I’m expecting too much but I practice and know the set forward and backwards and I don’t think these guys are practicing. I don’t want to come across as a dictator but the extremely exhausting long practice sessions aren’t yielding any improvement from those two and it’s starting to become not so fun.

What does "throwing clams" mean?

And no, they aren't practicing. They don't care. And, they won't.

 

[bbh]

If it’s your gig, you could book qualified subs to play with you and save this for later. If it it’s a band gig, you could suck it up for this gig and then create 2 bands out of the 1 band.
I think that’s what I would do…

 

[kentiki]

Are they going to continue to have "time constraints"? If so, it will only get worse.

 

[BlackVincent52]

The issue with the drummer to me is that I don’t think he knows the material. He struggles with a few songs in regards to a specific drumming pattern. We’ve tried to get him to work with a click, he says he cannot. I’ve got him to write notes down but sometimes he forgets to read them before rehearsal and forgets how to end a song and I feel like he’s winging it every time. We are now sending him visual cues noting the last note. Other people have come to watch, both musicians and not. No one wants to be critical so we get the same reply “you guys saying great”. My Dad was the first to call out the rhythm player for being choppy. I’ve already told him what I’ve determined the problem to be. He has trouble muting strings and he hovers his finger way too high off the fretboard but he considers himself as a professional. He only knows how to down strum everything and plays with zero dynamics. In certain parts, I’ve suggested simple parts, gave him the three notes to play instead and he purposely added three more notes and ended on an F# while we were playing an F. I really want to keep the band we have but these guys aren’t helping my argument. We get along and have common interests and political beliefs and I’m sure the audience can’t hear the mistakes just as my wife can’t hear them, but I can and my worst fear, is we replace those two with with new guys that are no better and without common interests.

Got it. I hope this thread has been helpful. I understand you're between a rock and a hard place, but it sounds like you have a pretty good read on the situation. Good luck!

 

[ac100X]

If the drummer is not the best you need this guy.........................

 

[Durham52]

Perhaps a different view to everyone else, but my approach would be to have a band talk and make the first question, 'Do we all want this band to survive and improve?' try and make it a working together scenario, if as you said, you think all the members are a good fit.
Of course if the result of a band talk is that one or two don't feel like the effort to improve is worth it, then you've got a clear signal as to what comes next.

Good luck which ever way this goes.

 

[Basslice]

Drummer that can't lock in on time? Been there and it made playing hard for me. To me that is worse than a guitarist that throws a few pickles. Do the gig and then have a to with the band. Guitarist s are easy to find, but a good drummer?

 

[LBS-bass]

What does "throwing clams" mean?

Making mistakes.

 

[juggahnaught]

Unfortunately, there's a curve in many amateur bands.

There's excitement and adrenaline building up to the first gig. Everyone is practicing to get ready for the big show. Everyone is sharp first time out live.

Then....

Once you get through that first show, many think they have "arrived". We got through one and nobody got dead. So, we're there. Why bother practicing more? Everything is already "good enough" for live shows. Get off my back. What are you worried about? It's "good enough". We already got a bonus and complements out the wazoo!!!! Relax!

You're not working with pro players. These guys are hacks (even if they are talented). "Pro" is not just talent. It's an attitude. It's knowing your parts. It's showing up on time. It's having a spare.... everything. It's being able to flex when something goes wrong. In short, being a pro means giving a @%&# about EVERYTHING. How you look, how you sound, your reputation, your future, EVERYTHING.

If these people don't, find people who do. Or you'll continue to bang your head against a wall.

I play in a dad band. We do a couple of shows a month +/-. But you know what? We bring our A game every single time. If something goes wrong on stage (which rarely happens) we HAMMER it until it's perfect next time out. In short, we care. So, although we are very much weekend warriors, we are all pro players/singers. Any of us could easily join a polished corporate/private/wedding band hauling in thousands per show and be right at home.

Find those players who are too busy with other things to be in a band for a living, but still want to play as if they are in one. It took me almost two years to put mine together. Worth every minute of the wait.

'Pro' is not just talent. It's an attitude.

Sig-worthy.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Making mistakes.

Oh, alright. Thank you LB

 

[FrenchBassQC]

I’m just thinking they are not as committed as the band leader and myself but also do not know their positions are in jeopardy at this point.

I think it is time for them to know, that might trigger something positive in them or else...

 

[BobDeRosa]

Are regular (weekly, biweekly, monthly) rehearsals possible, where you work on your repertoire and fix things that go wrong? Just calling the band together on a regular basis might communicate that everyone needs to take the group seriously if you want to succeed together.

 

[bass12]

Sounds like a good band... for a garage. People who take being on stage for granted and won’t put in the work don’t belong on stage. To me it’s as simple as that. If you want to keep the band together as is then stick to jamming in a practice space. If you want the band to get paid to entertain others then get some musicians who are stage-worthy. Dragging other players to water and waiting for them to drink is a frustrating waste of time.