Don't expect the impossible from a 15 inch driver!!

[Mark Andrew]

For the performance you are looking for, plug-n-play in your cab, here are a few drivers to consider: Kappalite 3015; Faital 15PR400; B&C 15CL76 and B&C 15NDL76. they have very similar excursion and thermal limited power handling, max spl, and bass extension. All are 'neo' drivers. All will yield an 'unpeaked' bass response. The two B&C drivers will yield an EBS alignment (extended bass shelf) - their bass response is flat, but a few db below the mids. This can produce a near flat response (even with the mids) when located near a room boundary. Otherwise, they will need a mild bass boost to yield a flat response. None of them will yield a bass tone that is rich or fat without a little EQ. All will produce what many would describe as deep and articulate when fed an unequalized signal. All have relatively flat response through the mids, and with the exception of the 3015, all have reasonably well controlled upper mid-lower treble breakup modes. The peaking in the 3015 provides a little more presence than the others, though this may be of no benefit when used with your 210. The B&C 15CL76 appears to offer performance essentially equal to the others, but is the lowest cost driver (of the 4 being recommended). I'm sure there are other suitable drivers, but these struck me as being very good candidates.

Many thanks i will place an order then

 

[seamonkey]

Square wave, no speaker likes that!. better fuse it !!!!

Overpowering, no speaker likes that!
For some reason, people like to hook up speakers to a regular 120v outlet and take a video. There are thousands of them on youtube. (Don't do it)
Power from the wall is a sine wave.

 

[agedhorse]

I thought direct coupled amps referenced the inter-stage coupling. DC coupling as opposed to be AC (capacitor or transformer) coupled.

If the output of an amp is shorted, isn't the speaker protected because no current flows through it?
Or did I misunderstand what you were saying?

Correct.

Doesn't matter if it's D.C. couples or not, all quality amps have short circuit protection to prevent damage. Also, quality amps have D.C. offset protection independent of transformer or capacitor coupling.

 

[Mark Andrew]

For the performance you are looking for, plug-n-play in your cab, here are a few drivers to consider: Kappalite 3015; Faital 15PR400; B&C 15CL76 and B&C 15NDL76. they have very similar excursion and thermal limited power handling, max spl, and bass extension. All are 'neo' drivers. All will yield an 'unpeaked' bass response. The two B&C drivers will yield an EBS alignment (extended bass shelf) - their bass response is flat, but a few db below the mids. This can produce a near flat response (even with the mids) when located near a room boundary. Otherwise, they will need a mild bass boost to yield a flat response. None of them will yield a bass tone that is rich or fat without a little EQ. All will produce what many would describe as deep and articulate when fed an unequalized signal. All have relatively flat response through the mids, and with the exception of the 3015, all have reasonably well controlled upper mid-lower treble breakup modes. The peaking in the 3015 provides a little more presence than the others, though this may be of no benefit when used with your 210. The B&C 15CL76 appears to offer performance essentially equal to the others, but is the lowest cost driver (of the 4 being recommended). I'm sure there are other suitable drivers, but these struck me as being very good candidates.

Do they make a 4 ohm 3015 i can only see the lf as a 4 ohm speaker?

 

[AstroSonic]

Do they make a 4 ohm 3015 i can only see the lf as a 4 ohm speaker?

I'm not aware of a 4 ohm version of the 3015 that is available , other than as specially made for cab makers. However, all 4 of the recommended drivers are kind of hybrid drivers: they are really more like 6 ohm drivers. So with respect to amplifier power utilization, any one of these, in parallel with your 4 ohm 210, will present a nominal 2.4 ohm load. There is a 4 ohm version of the 3015LF, but that driver rolls off the highs above about 1.4 kHz. Consequently it will sound a little dark when used without a mid or tweeter. Unless you can turn up the tweeter level in the 210 (if it has one), or the 10's have strong upper mids/lower treble, the combination is likely to sound somewhat dark. More to think about...

 

[BadExample]

They would probably built a custom 3015 for a few more pesos: The world's most trusted brands have Eminence inside | Eminence Speaker

Who knows what shipping to The Knights Who Say Ne! would cost though.

 

[Mark Andrew]

They would probably built a custom 3015 for a few more pesos: The world's most trusted brands have Eminence inside | Eminence Speaker

Who knows what shipping to The Knights Who Say Ne! would cost though.

Oh nee.

 

[BadExample]

Nee! back to you bro, Mark!

 

[Mark Andrew]

I'm not aware of a 4 ohm version of the 3015 that is available , other than as specially made for cab makers. However, all 4 of the recommended drivers are kind of hybrid drivers: they are really more like 6 ohm drivers. So with respect to amplifier power utilization, any one of these, in parallel with your 4 ohm 210, will present a nominal 2.4 ohm load. There is a 4 ohm version of the 3015LF, but that driver rolls off the highs above about 1.4 kHz. Consequently it will sound a little dark when used without a mid or tweeter. Unless you can turn up the tweeter level in the 210 (if it has one), or the 10's have strong upper mids/lower treble, the combination is likely to sound somewhat dark. More to think about...

Cack. The faital had a 4 ohm driver but getting one over here seems like it may be a bit of a mission. Using a 3015lf full range wont damage if will it?

 

[BadExample]

@AstroSonic knows so much more than I do, but I'll say woofers/bass speakers are usually damaged by too much LF at too much power, causing over-excursion and mechanical damage. Never say never, but I've never seen a woofer in good mechanical condition that suffered from over-excursion. IMO you are safe with a 3015.

 

[AstroSonic]

Cack. The faital had a 4 ohm driver but getting one over here seems like it may be a bit of a mission. Using a 3015lf full range wont damage if will it?

Running the 3015LF full range won't cause any harm. As long as you obey the power handling limits this driver should last for years. The Faital is a fine driver, so if you can find a 4 ohm you won't be disappointed. You really can't go wrong with any of these drivers. Keep in mind that the power will be split pretty close to evenly between the 210 and 115, and the 210 will be the limiting factor with respect to maximum volume.

 

[ThisBass]

Below the fundamental? That's interesting. Could explain a lot

Way below the fundamental. Science of signal theory tells that even the start up of a pure 100Hz sine wave generates a transient noise spectrum that goes down to 0Hz.

 

[Al Kraft]

Way below the fundamental. Science of signal theory tells that even the start up of a pure 100Hz sine wave generates a transient noise spectrum that goes down to 0Hz.

I'm slightly out of my depth here, but wouldn't a 0 HZ change simply represent an overall change in the ambient air pressure analogous to a DC bias change step function? In any event, I don't see it as audible, perhaps detectable depending on the magnitude of the change.

 

[ThisBass]

I'm slightly out of my depth here, but wouldn't a 0 HZ change simply represent an overall change in the ambient air pressure analogous to a DC bias change step function? In any event, I don't see it as audible, perhaps detectable depending on the magnitude of the change.

Of course you are right but, the principles of signal theory don't referes to the transfere medium properties. With signal theory its even possible to get negative frequencies if a mirror spectrum underruns 0Hz.

Imagine the tone of a violine starts up at pianissimo level and then the player succeeds loudnes slowly to fortissimo. The timbre of the tone remains nearly the same with upcoming loudness. Now the player plays staccato notes and thus the timbre of the tone at attack will change a lot. The attack start up and also the envelope decay "modulate" addiional "frequency content" which can be described as transient noise. This means the staccato notes emerge an additional (noise) spectrum that easily underruns the fundamental of the notes playing. In practice the transient noise equals an Gaussian bell curve which spreads down to 0Hz at the lowish frequency side but also spreads (theoretically) to infinite Hz at the upper side of the spectrum.

Even with a sine generator the effect of transient noise can be made audible. If a sine wave starts up immediatelly to steady level then there is kinda lowish "noise" audible for a very short time. The transient noise is of way lower frequencies than the steady sine itself.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

300 watts of a sine wave @ 40Hz will toast it, but not 300 watts of normal playing.

 

[Rick James]

I've never seen a woofer in good mechanical condition that suffered from over-excursion.

I've seen DJ subs where they were pushed so hard that the voice coil jumped out of the gap and got stuck.

 

[RoadRanger]

I've never seen a woofer in good mechanical condition that suffered from over-excursion.

Well, it wouldn't be "in good mechanical condition" afterwards, would it?

 

[agedhorse]

Of course you are right but, the principles of signal theory don't referes to the transfere medium properties. With signal theory its even possible to get negative frequencies if a mirror spectrum underruns 0Hz.

Imagine the tone of a violine starts up at pianissimo level and then the player succeeds loudnes slowly to fortissimo. The timbre of the tone remains nearly the same with upcoming loudness. Now the player plays staccato notes and thus the timbre of the tone at attack will change a lot. The attack start up and also the envelope decay "modulate" addiional "frequency content" which can be described as transient noise. This means the staccato notes emerge an additional (noise) spectrum that easily underruns the fundamental of the notes playing. In practice the transient noise equals an Gaussian bell curve which spreads down to 0Hz at the lowish frequency side but also spreads (theoretically) to infinite Hz at the upper side of the spectrum.

Even with a sine generator the effect of transient noise can be made audible. If a sine wave starts up immediatelly to steady level then there is kinda lowish "noise" audible for a very short time. The transient noise is of way lower frequencies than the steady sine itself.

Some of this is considered when developing models of circuits, and the necessary filter coefficients.

 

[BadExample]

I've seen DJ subs where they were pushed so hard that the voice coil jumped out of the gap and got stuck.

That I can believe! Poor ears for those nearby.

Well, it wouldn't be "in good mechanical condition" afterwards, would it?

By good mechanical condition, I mean no rub, visible cone damage, torn surround, etc. I think it's pretty unlikely a bass VC will burn without leaving easily spotted signs of mechanical damage.

My point was not that you can't damage a bass driver VC with overpowering it, but that your much more likely to destroy the driver mechanically. I think the percent of burnt VC's in bass drivers is likely in the single digits. I'm a hack when it comes to repairing drivers and it's unlikely I would ever try to repair a pro/bass driver, much less charge money for doing so. Well, maybe if the owner had done something really bad to me in the past

 

[seamonkey]

They would probably built a custom 3015 for a few more pesos: The world's most trusted brands have Eminence inside | Eminence Speaker

Who knows what shipping to The Knights Who Say Ne! would cost though.

Now that's a good idea! Maybe a group buy?
Someone could do a kick-the-wallet starter for the "Ultimate 15-inch bass speaker"
Where by everybody who contributes gets choice of the parameters the driver should have. The more you contribute the more votes you get.
I don't see a problem with everybody agreeing on the best parameters here