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Don't know why I still do it.

#81
Basshappi said:
They obviously have more respect for you than you do for yourself.
I can not comprehend how anyone would willingly tolerate such treatment at all much less stay in such a situation for years.
It might be somewhat understandable if you were a big name band with fame and big money on the line, maybe.
But you aren't in a band, you're in an abusive relationship.
Click to expand...

+1. You sound like an abused spouse.

Solution that keeps the music intact:
Have them put you on salary/retainer.
Reasoning: You are being treated like an employee. An unpaid employee! A member or partner would have some amount equity and influence. IMO either get equity, or get paid or get out.

Or keep doing the same thing and accept your position.
 
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#82
dukemasterj said:
However, they are the only two people in the area that not only share my musical goal, but share the drive and the talent to make it happen.
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Your musical goal is to be included. They clearly DO NOT share your goal, based on what you've said.

I've been there, most probably have. And I'm not going to beat you over the head and say it's your own fault but if it were me, I'd be bowing out at this point. Too many slaps in the face, too many empty words, too many stony silences.

Eff those guys, do your own thing. That's my take on it.
 
#83
dukemasterj said:
but they always talk me back into the band.
Click to expand...

If so, obviously they need/want you in the band. So get tough and lay down your conditions. First time they don't live up to them, give a warning that if they don't shape up, you're walking. Second time, walk and don't look back. By never hanging tough, you're allowing them to keep stepping on you - show them you mean business.

Ten years is way too long to stick with a-holes like that, but you seem to get something out of it, so I think you should try to get tough once and see if it helps, before just walking away. They might just think you're afraid to get tough, so they abuse you. Show them they're wrong about that and see what happens.

If they keep messing with you that way, doesn't sound like that could ever be your best shot - you'll get screwed no matter what happens.
 
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#84
I am going to quit one of the bands I'm in now for the following reasons (see if this sounds familiar):

It's an original band, singer/songwriter with a good voice and a collection of good/decent material. I thought I could help.

  • The BL writes original music and wants a solid band but can't/won't take the time to recruit decent musicians (he got lucky with me). His idea of an audition is if the guy shows up, he's in the band. Seriously. ;
  • When I make suggestions - borne of long experience - about arrangements/personnel, he has listened and then done the exact opposite of my suggestions. Example: The drummer is *weak*. He's a nice old guy who really can't play. So when we have songs with odd breaks / syncopation, he fails. I told the BL he has to simplify his songs if he wants the drummer to keep up - so he actually ADDED complexity. He has done this on several songs, as if to tell me to go to hell.
  • He now wants to integrate '70s cover tunes into the band "to get gigs". I explained that original acts do showcases and coffee shops - that's what they do. He won't listen. When he asked me to "learn" Long Train Running, I gave him a look that actually made him stagger. "Learn" Long train running. Jeeez - I'm 53 years old. Might as well ask me to learn Mustang Sally...
  • The music is mostly folksy / mildly interesting rock. He has *one* funky song that everyone loves (that I nail, thank you) - I urged him to write more like it . So he proceeded to write a string of slow, snoozy, heartfelt songs that are put people to sleep.
So yeah - I have given it a sincere effort - but the frustration level has gotten *this* high - I'm done. Life it too short. There ARE bands looking for good bassists.
 
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#86
Judging by your response about showing your bandmates this thread etc is further validation of your history of passive aggressive behavior.

Why on earth would you do that? You can't get folks to change after 10 years of habit by showing them a thread on TB. It would be a horrible play and I sincerely hope you abstain from doing it.

I see that you are 22 YO. Here is the Veteran in me talking.....

Grow a pair and ditch that band. Work on your own music and find a like-minded group of musicians for your next venture. Do not compromise on simple areas of self respect and dignity. You are so young......you have all the time in the world right now. Don't waste it!!!
 
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#87
CatSquare said:
Cut them out of your life. If they ask why, tell them plainly that you realized they're a couple of disrespectful wastes of time. If they don't ask why, that's one less bit of energy you need to waste on them and further proof that they aren't/never were worth it.
Click to expand...
I'd go one better. I would get my gear when they weren't around and just bail. When (if) they contacted me I would say: "I've already said everything I've had to say. Do not contact me again."
 
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#88
Showing them this will not accomplish anything positive for you. It will likely cause many negative things for you.

It is not your responsibility to tell them why you are leaving. Anything you say Will be used against you and twisted in their mind to justify their action towards you And possibly ruin your reputation if possible.

Just tell them i quit and let them figure it out.
 
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#89
StinkFoot said:
If so, obviously they need/want you in the band. So get tough and lay down your conditions. First time they don't live up to them, give a warning that if they don't shape up, you're walking. Second time, walk and don't look back - preferably at a critical time, like right before a gig. (Unless you're worried that will ruin your reputation.) By never hanging tough, you're allowing them to keep stepping on you - show them you mean business.
Click to expand...


Walking away right before a gig is the worst advise in this thread. With that one decision, you validate every single one of their actions over the last decade. It instantly brings you down to their level of respect. And, it gives you a horrible name right as you are trying to find new musicians to play with.

And, showing them this thread is a great idea if you want them to think even less of you than they obviously do now. In other words--yeah, dumb idea.

If they haven't changed in 10 years, they aren't going to change. Either admit you are willing to be their carpet to walk all over, or move on. Nothing is ever going to change because you've let it go on for 10 years.

You say there is no one else in the area that shares your vision--how do you know? Is that what they've told you? Hell, even if there isn't another musician within 200 miles that would work out--in 10 years, you could have become proficient on both guitar and drums and recorded your own material without them. All they are doing is showing you a total lack of respect that is obviously making you miserable enough to rant online.

THEY IGNORED YOUR INPUT WITH REGARDS TO A HEROIN ADDICT. Why do you think they have any interest listening to you now?

Find something else. MAKE something else. You should tell these guys that you have no interest in playing with them as part of a band. If they aren't going to listen to you about....well....ANYTHING, tell them that you will simply consider yourself a sideman to avoid the annoyance of being ignored. That means you have to be paid for practice, gigs and recording. They can take it, or leave it. If they balk--walk. If they call you up and convince you to come back, tell them that you aren't playing anything else until they have learned and recorded at least three of your tunes. If they "don't feel like it" on those days, leave. It's really a very simple proposition. If you just really, really want to play, you either need to accept them treating you like crap, or you need to change the situation into one that is acceptable. You sound miserable. I can be miserable at my day job. I don't need to be miserable playing music. I do that to NOT feel miserable.
 
#92
dukemasterj said:
RANT ALERT:::::::::::::

I currently am in a band with two other musicians. I've been playing with the drummer in various projects for the last 10 years, and guitarist for a good 4 or 5 years. Not once have I ever felt like an equal among them, and I don't mean in terms of talent. I feel like I don't have a voice in the band whatsoever, and it kills me. They ignore everything that I say and I mean EVERYTHING. Whenever I have an opinion, I am immediately outvoted and what I say gets absolutely zero consideration.

Heres just a couple examples.

Just today we were setting up a cabinet to be a monitor, I asked him about the ohm situation about three or four times and he completely ignored me. When I asked if he cared what I was saying he flat out said "no." So much for me being a nice guy and wanting to make sure his amp could handle what he was about to be throwing at it.

A couple weeks ago I talked to them about how I feel and that if they want to keep me there will be changes, this was how I was finally able to get them to learn one of my songs for a change. That's right, I've been playing for 10 years with one of these guys and I am just NOW able to get one of my songs on the album. So yesterday, I asked my guitarist if he went over my song in his free time (he said he would) but he told me that he didn't have the time and then proceeded to show me the song he wrote in those couple of weeks. Hmmmmmm, so he doesn't have time to learn my song but he has time to write a completely new one?

Speaking of my song I asked if my drummer (also our producer) if we could work on my song. He says yes, but every time it becomes my day at the studio, he will end up with some reason as to why he can't do it. One time he even just straight up told me that he just didn't feel like it. I told him that I really don't care because I had been playing his songs for the last decade whether I felt like it or not.

A few months ago we were looking for a vocalist, I show up to the studio one day and there's a vocalist I had previously worked with with a mic in his hand doing some recording (this was on my scheduled day to record btw) Now apparently they had been considering him for over a week at that point. They didn't bother to tell me. Well, like I said, I worked with this vocalist before. I was more than aware of his heroin addiction, but none of the band really seemed to care when I brought it up. They gave him a chance for over a month and his addiction proved too much for them. They would have saved themselves a month if they had just listened to me in the first place.

If these two guys were anybody else, I would have left a long time ago. However, they are the only two people in the area that not only share my musical goal, but share the drive and the talent to make it happen. Plus, I'm at a point in my life where the band is really all I have. I don't know what to do anymore talkbass. My heart tells me to quit but my brain keeps worrying that this band is my best chance.
Click to expand...

You are George Harrison to McCartney and Lennon in this situation. Since being in a band with these guys gives you satisfaction of sorts, perhaps instead of making suggestions, which you know will end with them disrespecting you, be content playing your role in the band and keep your opinions to yourself.
 
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#94
SanDiegoHarry said:
I am going to quit one of the bands I'm in now for the following reasons (see if this sounds familiar):

It's an original band, singer/songwriter with a good voice and a collection of good/decent material. I thought I could help.

  • The BL writes original music and wants a solid band but can't/won't take the time to recruit decent musicians (he got lucky with me). His idea of an audition is if the guy shows up, he's in the band. Seriously. ;
  • When I make suggestions - borne of long experience - about arrangements/personnel, he has listened and then done the exact opposite of my suggestions. Example: The drummer is *weak*. He's a nice old guy who really can't play. So when we have songs with odd breaks / syncopation, he fails. I told the BL he has to simplify his songs if he wants the drummer to keep up - so he actually ADDED complexity. He has done this on several songs, as if to tell me to go to hell.
  • He now wants to integrate '70s cover tunes into the band "to get gigs". I explained that original acts do showcases and coffee shops - that's what they do. He won't listen. When he asked me to "learn" Long Train Running, I gave him a look that actually made him stagger. "Learn" Long train running. Jeeez - I'm 53 years old. Might as well ask me to learn Mustang Sally...
  • The music is mostly folksy / mildly interesting rock. He has *one* funky song that everyone loves (that I nail, thank you) - I urged him to write more like it . So he proceeded to write a string of slow, snoozy, heartfelt songs that are put people to sleep.
So yeah - I have given it a sincere effort - but the frustration level has gotten *this* high - I'm done. Life it too short. There ARE bands looking for good bassists.
Click to expand...

No, you're doing it wrong. You need to tell the guy the opposite of what you want him to do. :D
 
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#95
One thing I definitely have to say: I wouldn't even let a junkie know where I rehearse much less play a kazoo with him for even 5 seconds AND I would immediately quit ANY band that didn't feel the same!
 
#96
Last year I was in a similar position. Trust me when I say that quitting the band is the wiser decision.

I quit a band I had been with for 5 years, comprised of like-minded musicians in a very unusual music scene. We accomplished quite a bit of notoriety, played gigs across the country, released and played a few albums' worth of material. Two of my closest friends were bandmates - the vocalist and the guitarist. I was not just the bassist for the band, but its manager. Or rather, I was its manager on paper. In reality, I was a glorified accountant and an adult babysitter who played bass on the side.

The guitarist was a confidant and advisor in difficult times, and even let me crash on his couch for a while when I was temporarily homeless because of a bad relationship. He was a reasonably talented multi-instrumentalist with a professional background in sound and music production; his studio became our home base. But he had no shortage of needless drama, and I was too tolerant of his flaws. His personal life was a mess and cost the band a lot of time and money to work around. He was extremely controlling with the band's material. Getting him to share works in progress or master tracks was like pulling teeth. Getting him to work on song ideas that weren't his own was a genuine challenge. He had an increasingly specific and restrictive vision of what the band should be, even when he was in no position to make any part of it a reality. He re-worked and overworked songs to death - even officially released material. He was older than me and treated me like a younger brother - a quality that I mistook as positive. He paid little respect to my thoughts and opinions, and was quick to assert ownership of any material I wrote. He injured my wife in a pre-gig car accident stemming from severe sleep deprivation and extreme stubbornness. He lied to my bandmates about me on a number of matters in an effort to protect himself, and tried to pin his failings on me personally. My last confrontation with him resulted in him quitting the band for the second time and doing some serious damage to what my bandmates thought of me.

Yeah, you read that right. He officially quit twice, and nearly quit several more times before those instances. I talked him back into the project most of the time, but stopped trying after a while. I genuinely believed that he needed to not be in a band for a while so he could deal with his personal drama.

Although the guitarist was the worst offender, the band as a whole was no picnic. Whenever something went wrong with a group decision, I was usually thrown under the bus for it. Whenever a gig went awry, I was left to pick up the pieces and apologize for the band's professional shortcomings. When someone drank too much or was spinning off on mushrooms, I had to mitigate the subsequent damage to our reputation. When someone needed to be axed, I was the executioner. When the band was direly short on cash (for space rental, tour expenses, etc.) I fronted it and was lucky to see any of it reimbursed. I even turned down an offer to join another band that I was filling in for, because the drama of my primary band was consuming too much of my life.

When I finally decided to quit the band, it was shortly after the guitarist quit for the second time. He talked to the vocalist and offered to rejoin on the condition that I was fired. The vocalist thought it was absurd, and hoped in vain for some kind of resolution to keep us both in the band. My other bandmates, buying into his manipulative tactics, thought the band would be doomed without the guitarist's talents and resources. I decided the drama was not worth the music, and I made a rather reserved public announcement of my departure.

I don't regret quitting, not even for a moment. It was the best choice for my health, sanity, and development as a musician. I'm in a better band now (the one I initially turned down the offer for), working on more of my own musical ideas, and I'm still friends with several of my former bandmates who are working on new musical projects.

Right now, it is understandably hard to see how quitting a band like yours would be a positive move. Once you do, though, you'll soon wonder why you didn't quit sooner.
 
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#97
There is a difference between being less dominant in the desicion making to being completely disrespected. Even if you do make it, they'll most likely get a better bass player rather quickly since they obviously don't appreciate your membership in the band. Good luck.
 
#98
StinkFoot said:
Yeah - bad idea. I took that out.
Click to expand...

I had a situation one time where driving to a gig I had this overwhelming feeling that I should just not go. Things in the band had gotten weird and I didn't know why. The BL was as DB, a much bigger one than I thought at the time, and of course thought he was the center of all that is bandom. You know the old story, we were working a lot and the money was really good. But, I went and I literally regretted it every second I was there. He was calling songs that I had no clue about and then he was getting pissed when they sounded bad. Turns out that he and the female singer had been working on an acoustic duo and the songs he was calling were ones that they had been working on, the rest of us were lost. I was way pissed. So, the next day I get an email that he is going to "move on" without me, the drummer of the other guitar player. He then proceeded to ask me if it was ok if they worked the rest of our booked gigs, 90% of which I booked. I didn't answer him, it only took me about 2 phone calls to get all the gigs cancelled. He also asked about getting him added to the Facebook page as an admin. Ya, that was going to happen! Long story short, I sincerely wish that I had followed my instincts and left him hanging on the gig that night, live and learn...
 

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