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Don't play the thirds?

#44
Yeah, some soloists want to have choices, AND your job is to support the soloist; so technically you are supposed to be subservient to the soloist.

On blues tunes it can be tricky. #9s on Dominant 7th chords? Tricky one. Listen to hear what kind of third the soloist is playing and also WHEN. In a blues tune you are generally safe playing the major third in bar 4 regardless of whether you're major or minor. Everywhere else, listen to the soloist, what kind of third is he playing.

If you're playing jazz standards it's better to stick with the changes and play the correct third in the chord; and play the third late in the bar. If the chord resolves up a fourth you can change a minor third to a major third if you play it late in the bar; otherwise there really isn't a lot of futzing with the thirds on standard 32 bar tunes.

BTW, I play a lot of jazz saxophone.
 
#45
BTW, the difference between a m3 and a #9 is in the spelling which is dictated by the voice leading. In other words; how do they resolve?

Also any chord with a #9 designation is typically a Dominant 7th type chord that resolves up a fourth and has a MAJOR third. Any other type of chord with a #9 designation is USUALLY bad nomenclature.
 
#47
Roadkill said:
I was at a blues/jazz jam last night and the trumpet player told me that I shouldn't play the thirds as it limits what the horns can solo on. First time I heard this? This guy has toured with "A" list bands so I suspect he knows what he's talking about ;) . Anyone care to elaborate? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Ya at open jams sometimes people like to tell the bass player what to do.
 
#56
It's not really about what's been done successfully before, you want to think about what it is you're trying to do now. If you're trying open up the music and explore some alternative melodies, then a bassist who hits the 3rd too often can start to become limiting.

One of the more common scale substitutions I've seen soloists use is playing a Mixolydian scale on top of a minor key tune. Because the notes are nearly identical except for the 3rd, it's easy to slip in a few melodies based on the Mixolydian mode, but if you have a bassist who won't lay off that third for a bar or two, it's going to cause some clashing.

I don't think you should be thinking about what other bassists play or what's fair. You guys are trying to make great music. I think a better approach would be to listen to the music and see where it's heading, and then do what you can to support its direction. If the soloist sounds like he wants to play around with tonalities, then it's not a big deal to lay off the 3rd for a few bars and let him do that.
 
#57
FretlessMainly said:
INTP said:
when I read the feedback from the trumpet player, I was thinking that might be his way of saying that he was looking for the bass to define the chord changes more clearly.
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I cannot possibly think of a note that defines the chord changes more clearly than the third. (My order of importance: 3rd, 7th, root, 5th.)
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Certainly, the third is critical to defining the chord quality, but the manner in which it is used is important. I was thinking that the trumpet player's suggestion might have been a shortcut to a discussion that requires much more subtlety.

But I am not a mind reader, and I wasn't there. I do believe that the trumpet player felt the need to say something because something wasn't working for him.
 
#58
Roy Vogt said:
Other things to avoid at a Blues Jam:
7 String Basses
Slapping
anything written after 1960
harmonica players
:D
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So what happens when a guitarist wants you to play "put the shoe on the other foot" on a big venue (that you gently learned slap version, like this--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kwr9f-e5z4), and **** you with his poo poo finger basslines that doesn't sound ?? :D
 
#60
Roadkill said:
Yes, both :D.
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I hope I didn't come off as smarmy in my question - here in Boston we have open jams for blues, but I don't know of any open jams for jazz (or certainly not both). To me, it's critical to understand in what context the trumpet player was asking you to omit or reduce your use of the third. Was it Stormy Monday, or was it Stella By Starlight?

INTP said:
Certainly, the third is critical to defining the chord quality, but the manner in which it is used is important. I was thinking that the trumpet player's suggestion might have been a shortcut to a discussion that requires much more subtlety.

But I am not a mind reader, and I wasn't there. I do believe that the trumpet player felt the need to say something because something wasn't working for him.
Click to expand...

Agreed - see my comment above. I can see in some sort of blues context that the horn soloist may want to hammer the #9 and the natural 3rd in the bass could be a problem. But if the tune in question was Stella by Starlight, or There Will Never be Another You, one would think that the third would be fine in the bass.

To take it to the extreme, imagine a Monk tune - you could play the b9, 9, (#9, b3rd) and nat 3rd and he'd smile - just ask Charlie Rouse. :)
 

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