• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Don't Use Charts on The Gig

#241
jerry said:
Back in the day Bruce used to split the tour pay pretty evenly, Nils Lofgren couldn't believe how much Bruce would pay the band when he joined. I'm sure with the larger band it's different now, but Bruce was never one of the cheap band leaders.
Click to expand...
Well that's pretty cool and that's probably why they all jumped at the chance to reunite ;) Max even took time off from Conan O'Brien, and that gig was a pretty sweet payday. I'm sure Charlie's not complaining in the least, then, even if he does make less. Good for him. First heard him with Pat Benetar and the dude's great.
 
#242
Yesterday, I received a setlist of 23 country tunes for a gig that I'm playing on Saturday. I never heard any of tunes before yesterday but I just finished prepping my "cheat sheets" that I'll upload onto my tablet. I will definitely be reading reading from it on Saturday. There's no way I'm pulling off 23 unfamiliar tunes by memory by then but i will pull off the gig.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BassChuck, Howlin' Hanson, Ross Kratter and 2 others
#244
JimmyM said:
I wonder if Charlie makes anywhere near what the other guys make. Actually, I wonder who makes what in that band. I always wondered that if they all make the same or if some make more than most. I would imagine Little Steven makes more than anyone but Bruce, no?

I always love hearing about what musicians with big solo stars make. Some of these big stars can be downright cheap. Nathan East said Barry White paid him $200 a week in the 70's for a tour. That was crap money for even back then!
Click to expand...

To be fair, if he was playing with the Love Unlimited Orchestra... an actual orchestra... that wasn't crap money in the 70's. That was a pretty big payroll for an R&B artist.
 
Last edited:
#245
elgecko said:
Yesterday, I received a setlist of 23 country tunes for a gig that I'm playing on Saturday. I never heard any of tunes before yesterday but I just finished prepping my "cheat sheets" that I'll upload onto my tablet. I will definitely be reading reading from it on Saturday. There's no way I'm pulling off 23 unfamiliar tunes by memory by then but i will pull off the gig.
Click to expand...


This can be the difference between being able to do a gig or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howlin' Hanson
#247
Are we doing this again? :hyper::hyper::hyper:YIPPEEEE!:hyper::hyper::hyper:

I use charts. Sometimes, even if I know the song, I step up to the mic and I can't remember the first line. I don't really want to spend lots of time going over every song before a gig and it's possible we won't have a setlist until the day of. So it's helpful to have the chord chart on the ipad attached to the mic stand. Also serves as a set list. It's pretty unobtrusive. And if we get a request I can pull up chords and lyrics to just about anything on the spot. I butchered 2 out of 3 ain't bad recently. The crowd loved it and we got a nice tip.

If you want to come down here and take my crappy gigs because of your no chart awesomeness feel free. But be advised we were recently voted "Best Band in Dalton".*




*In a survey of several people including my mother.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Groove Doctor, carl h., Howlin' Hanson and 1 other person
#248
Brad Johnson said:
To be fair, if he was playing with the Love Unlimited Orchestra... an actual orchestra... that wasn't crap money in the 70's. That was a pretty big payroll for an R&B artist.
Click to expand...
True, it was a huge band, and Barry couldn't have put it together if he didn't hire green students for cheap. And Nathan's not complaining about the size of his checks now so it did him some good. Still, it just goes to show you that being a backup musician for a famous artist often only pays slightly better than your average local convention gigs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: okcrum and Brad Johnson
#249
I usually play with charts on my iPad using iRealB (yeah the "jazz" app). It has a great set of tools for charting and have all my bands songs in there. I sit it on the floor and the audience don't even see it. It's really handy to flip to the next page when you've finished the song to just check through the key and changes for the next tune. It prevents that dreaded feeling of "oh sh!t - here comes the bridge... what's that in again"? Just glance down - train wreck averted.

I play with a lot of bands and may not hear from them for 6 months - then get a call out of the blue. I'd love to have all songs perfectly remembered but I'm not Superman.

If you play in one band then it's a different discussion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howlin' Hanson
#250
Musicians playing classical music use sheet music, as do big band musicians. Jazz players often use sheet music or other notation.

I see no reason why pop, rock and blues players shouldn't use charts or notation that helps them. Many of my bandmates have been playing for 20 years or more, but they occasionally reference notes on paper or a tablet. I do the same, and although I don't spend the whole number looking at it, I'll glance at it as needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howlin' Hanson
#251
Interesting discussion!

I am a professional player for 35 + years. I've worked for a very well known country artist and filled in for many, many more over my career. So this is just my experience and opinion!!

Now of course, I usually don't read charts on my current artist's gig, BECAUSE I HAVE PLAYED THEM A MILLION TIMES. Why would you need a chart then?

But in the beginning, absolutely! And every new album that my artist comes out with, I will chart, but lose the chart after rehearsals.

My first gig for my artist was on a TV show....I had one rehearsal...at soundcheck for the TV show! The chart was at my feet. I didn't miss a note.

Every once in a blue moon my artist will call an obscure album tune or want to learn a new tune at soundcheck to perform that night.

So, I have a notebook filled with every tune my artist has ever done...including covers. The other guys in the band call me the "Scribe" because I write this stuff down religiously ...so they are always asking me,"what is the key"?..."who is in at the top"?..."arrangement"?.... "how does it end"?

Now to you guys that know the entire catalog of...."insert favorite artist/band" (ie, ACDC) here...because you have heard and played these songs a million times and your band performs it exactly like the arrangement on the record .....why would you need a chart? Because you have played and KNOW these songs!!

BUT WHAT IF NEVER HEARD OF ACDC?? (indulge me) How would you get through the gig??

Also, how many cover bands have different arrangements? OR Medleys?? (one song running into another into another)

My ex is singer that plays with several different corporate and top 40 bands....all different arrangements and keys. She has an iPad with all the different arrangements.

What if you are called for a gig the day before AND you never played or heard one of these songs??

Believe me, it's happened to me, many, many times.

There is no way that I would have made it through those gigs without charts... I'm sorry, I can't memorize 20-30 tunes in a day and feel comfortable playing a concert in front of thousands.

I don't care what it looks like...I care what it SOUNDS like and I've made through many, many of these situations. In fact, I have been asked back multiple times.

What if your called to do a Broadway show? Can you read standard notation?

A recording session? In Nashville everything is number charts and if you have the skill, you can notate kick drum patterns and melodic runs....you have to do this as quickly as possible. Tick Tock!

I will say this, I have gotten many more gigs because I can read than not!

Of course there are are many, many more variables involved in getting a gig...do you have an easy going personality?...can you groove?...are you going to deliver in a high pressure situation?...can you get along with multiple personalities? (this is an echo of point 1)

It doesn't matter if it's chord charts, number charts or standard notation.

AND oh yes, I have paid my dues playing in top 40 bands...we would learn at least 3 new songs a week and occasionally I would have a chart and lyrics on stage for the new song, but only for the first few performances, then it's off the chart.

Bottom line, if I am playing the tune more that 2 or 3 times, then I am off the chart.

If it's just a one-off filling in for another bass player on another artists gig...charts. I will probably never play those songs again, but I will have the charts cataloged!


Keep it Low...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jastacey, Groove Doctor, s0c9 and 4 others
#253
buldog5151bass said:
Again, the issue is not whether you have charts/cheat sheets/whatever. When you are locked into looking at them, and ignore the audience, that it can be an issue. You are performing, not just playing.
Click to expand...

Then, as mentioned before, the chart isn't the problem. So... seeing another musician in another situation shouldn't warrant bringing that baggage along.

Most of us talking about our use of charts or notes are talking about using them for unfamiliar music. There's a comfort level that comes with good notes that I'm guessing most don't even consider. For instance, if you've ever been on a gig and realize a bridge or change is coming up and you're blanking on it. With a good chart or note you can not only go right to that part you can do things prior to that that can lead into it, that could easily be more musically interesting. Or not of course. Charts don't guarantee taste.

If you're not a front person does your audience really care what you're gazing at? Or might they just be happy you aren't causing train wrecks?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: tkonbass, Phil Smith and Bassdudeman
#254
buldog5151bass said:
Again, the issue is not whether you have charts/cheat sheets/whatever. When you are locked into looking at them, and ignore the audience, that it can be an issue. You are performing, not just playing.
Click to expand...
Being locked into looking at charts is a stage in the progression towards becoming a good reader.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pacman, tkonbass and Bassdudeman
#258
And again, the type of gig matters. In my jazz band, the Real Book is always in front of me (although I prefer not having to read the entire chart). With a rock band, I may have a page with some chord changes in there to remind me, but I will only glance at it, and then back up - I always try to be looking out, even at a fixed point over the head of the audience.
 
#259
Phil Smith said:
This is like a why do you need more than one bass or a bass that cost more than X dollars discussion.
Click to expand...
+1

Once again a thread started by someone that can't conceive of anyone doing anything differently than they do it. "I've been playing the same three chord rock with the same people for 35 years and I don't need a chart; why would anyone else need a chart????????"
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back