doom rock bass

[analogrowl]

Hi folks,

First post here, i hope i'm not gonna ask something too redundant or stupid .

Well, i just joined a doom/stoner rock band, which play really low and loud rock. We are tuned in B, A or Bb so i'd prefer a 5-string bass. But it's really hard to find a good 5-string (i mean sounding as good as 4-string one with an amazing B).

To resume, i need a bass with a long sustain, lot of bass and a very agressive tone. I mostly play through distortion DIY pedals like bif muff, woolly mammoth and alike. I actually use an US Ampeg SVT-3 PRO head with an Ampeg Classic cab. Playing the bass aggressively with a plectrum close to the bass bridge.

I'm actually looking used bass around and i'm hesitating between an old passive vintage 4-string PBass or Teleca Bass (i've an offer for a 77' one around 2K&#8364 dropped tune in BEAD or a modern active bass like a Musicman Stingray Classic 5. What do you think about that guys ? My budget is around 2K€ selling another bass i actually own.

Any other advice of other bass i should give a try (i'm going to paris this week end to try some bass). Also it seems that gear in US are very less expensive than in Europe and a friend of mine is going to live to SF soon. So any advice of cool shop around SF ? Or advice how to ship at affordable cost a bass to Europe (i'm sure some of you have some experience).

Regards,
And really sorry if this is asked several times a day.
Cheers From atlantic other side.

 

[VeeSpade]

The ESP Guitar Company | 2011 USA Website

ESP-LTD F-415fm

This bass is all you need.I'm in your shoes and I was in between this and a t-bird pro, but this is one of those basses where you simply can't find a better for the price.Reviews say it's way better than basses twice it's price and I found a thread somewhere here where people say it's better than the Spector euro 5 ($2500 bass).
If you search the german website thomann.de, you'll be able to find a sound sample of the 4 string (f-414fm) for metal,rock,slap and jazz.It holds up among all of these pretty good for a metal bass.

 

[parsons]

just get a 4 and have it tuned BEAD with the strings from a 5 string. I doubt youll need many notes above the standard G for that genre... but you would know better than me.

 

[analogrowl]

just get a 4 and have it tuned BEAD with the strings from a 5 string. I doubt youll need many notes above the standard G for that genre... but you would know better than me.

Yes, you are quite right, i sometimes play chords in the D and G string but i can transpose it on a 4-String Configuration. I really like the open G sound but i think the low are more important as i play mainly in the two lower strings. Should the neck be 35" then ?

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I've found that a brighter punchier bass works better with lots of dirt or fuzz.

mud tone into mud pedals equals crappy oversaturated tone.

I also haven't been able to run directly into any overdrive or fuzz pedal.
I've got a clean blending system set up on my pedalboard. This helps prevent flubby incoherent lows (readowerless lows).

I suppose I should ask what kind of doom rock you're playing, before I accidentally direct you down the wrong path?

Long sustained drone doom? doom metal? doom rock? stoner rock? etc.....

 

[PurpleDrank]

... I need a bass with a long sustain, lot of bass and a very agressive tone. I mostly play through distortion DIY pedals like bif muff, woolly mammoth and alike. I actually use an US Ampeg SVT-3 PRO head with an Ampeg Classic cab. Playing the bass aggressively with a plectrum close to the bass bridge...

Sounds like a used Ric strung BEAD might be in order. Personally I can't stand how they feel, but they look awesome and would certainly do the sounds you're after. If you are really lucky and patient, you might even be able to find a used Ric 5-stringer.

A 35" scale 5'er might have a more defined and tighter feeling B, if that's what you are looking for, but I don't think it will be necessary for playing doom. Just adjust the pickups so you can get an almost even sound from the B to the E and crank up the volume on the amp. Good to go.

Strangely, I kind of feel like a two pickup MusicMan Bongo (4- or 5-string) set on the neck pickup would sound absolutely massive in a doom band, but I don't think anybody else feels this way. At least I've never seen anybody try it.

 

[analogrowl]

I've found that a brighter punchier bass works better with lots of dirt or fuzz.
Long sustained drone doom? doom metal? doom rock? stoner rock? etc.....

Hum so maybe a tele bass wouldn't be such a good option as it seems that it already got a mud sound bright. And that an active bass would be much easier to manage.

I suppose I should ask what kind of doom rock you're playing, before I accidentally direct you down the wrong path?

To be honest, it's kinda hard to answer. We have songs that range from drone doom with one note every 30sec and other ones that sounds like pure stoner rock. We try to arrange song with a classical music approach and to focus on sound rather than technical arrangement.

I think it's more rock than metal but that may vary. Influences comes from bands like shellac, kyuss, QOTSA, a storm of light, bohren und der club of gore, sunn o))), buried at sea, sleep, earth, melvins and a lot more of course.

 

[analogrowl]

Sounds like a used Ric strung BEAD might be in order. Personally I can't stand how they feel, but they look awesome and would certainly do the sounds you're after. If you are really lucky and patient, you might even be able to find a used Ric 5-stringer.

Yeah i was also looking for rics. I have to try one first and i'm not sure how it'd handle the BEAD strings size. But that's a really good option too. My guitarist (which is also a really good bass player) tried one 5-String ric and told me that the B on ric sucks.

I'm gonna give a try to the MM Bongo too at the shop this week-end. Massive sound is all about i need. We are just 3 in the band (drum, guitar bass, or sometimes brass instrument, or synth always with a huge distorted bass)

 

[JoshuaTSP]

Hum so maybe a tele bass wouldn't be such a good option as it seems that it already got a mud sound bright. And that an active bass would be much easier to manage.

Mudbuckers are really cool....and in reality, if you work with it....you could probably make it work.
The mudbucker sound is good for filling a mix....that's for sure. sub lows. nice.

Active bass output levels can interact with dirt pedals in a different ways than a passive instrument. Just keep that in mind.

To be honest, it's kinda hard to answer. We have songs that range from drone doom with one note every 30sec and other ones that sounds like pure stoner rock. We try to arrange song with a classical music approach and to focus on sound rather than technical arrangement.

I think it's more rock than metal but that may vary. Influences comes from bands like shellac, kyuss, QOTSA, a storm of light, bohren und der club of gore, sunn o))), buried at sea, sleep, earth, melvins and a lot more of course.

Cool, we dig a lot of the same bands.

For the droney stuff, I would start with a compressor/sustainer type pedal. Bass can only sustain so long by itself. Fuzz pedals compress/sustain too. The combination usually give you the most sustain....just have to watch out for feedback at higher volumes.

In general, I tend to think most of stoner/doom/sludge tone comes from pedals and amps. A good bass is important, but how it sounds doesn't factor in as much. IMO.

So if you've got a great bass, you can probably make it work with the right combo of pedals and amps.

I will say that Stingray type basses.....something with that punchy growl seem to work very well.

 

[Legattabass]

I have a Squier VM Telebass. It was roughly $300. It does metal like whoa.

I play it with a pick and DR High-Beam Stainless Steel strings, usually down by the bridge. I find that with distortion, the strings, the pick and the playing location I can bring out a ton of brightness and attack without having P or J pickups. But the low-end on that pickup is monstrous. It distorts on clean settings. It goes well with OD or Fuzz.

Proof enough for me is that with the tone 70% closed, it recreates a nigh-perfect Kyuss-Whitewater sound.

I detest the way P-basses distort. They get so honky and brassy and "dry". The Telebass is almost entirely low-end, meaning even if I EQ for obnoxious, hissing highs, it's still going to shake the floor.

I EQ it by keeping the lows a little subdued, boosting the low mids, REALLY boosting the high mids, and depending on the sound I want or whether I'm playing with a pick, boosting the highs/gain.

I spent 2 years looking for the right bass. Ibanez's, P-basses, warwicks, other mudbuckers. For doom/stoner/drone, this bass is my tool. You should try one out if you can.

 

[analogrowl]

Cool, we dig a lot of the same bands.

Nice !!!

For the droney stuff, I would start with a compressor/sustainer type pedal. Bass can only sustain so long by itself.

Have any recommandation of a good sustain model or a diy shematics ?

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I dig the EBS Multicomp. Really natural sounding with plenty of adjustment.

You could get away with any old compressor......but the cheaper or poorly designed ones are noisy at higher compression settings.

A Boss Comp/Sus will probably suck all of your low end out.

I suppose your price range will decide which pedals you can afford.

 

[CORBS]

You might look in to a Ray35 if they have them there. Around here a lot of metal bands use MMs or Tobias Growlers or those MTDs with the single MM pickup, and they work really great in the mix, and are also really good with effects. They might not have all the bass of a 51' p or VM Tele but the preamp can add a bit and the amp can too.

I would be careful doing a BEAD tuning, I broke a (plastic) nut once trying to force the B in to the E slot with no modification, and sometimes the bridges can't be intonated properly or will buzz or rattle.

If you are feeling lucky you might find a used: Warwick Basses Amps & Rock'n Roll

 

[XtheDeadPawn]

I'd suggest something with humbuckers.

Maybe the F-405, the Tom Araya sig. models (The ones with EMG's), an ATK305 (I have one and it is great in getting any rock style sound) or like you said already a ray but, IMO rays are expensive and ATK's can help you get their sound with about half the price.

 

[darkstorm]

ESP Ltd f155dx, if on a budget or f405 if can spend a bit more. Diff better low b then most anything in their price range that Ive heard,

 

[VeeSpade]

I'd suggest something with humbuckers.

Maybe the F-405, the Tom Araya sig. models (The ones with EMG's), an ATK305 (I have one and it is great in getting any rock style sound) or like you said already a ray but, IMO rays are expensive and ATK's can help you get their sound with about half the price.

Actually the f-405 isn't the T.A., but it sure is better and cheaper.Hard to find, given it's discontinued, but the esp I suggested (f-415) is the same thing without the tribal inlays.

P.S. After reading several posts I suggest you snag a 5-string ric.You seem to be willing to pay, and rics are beloved among doom fans. You might not use that g string (giggity) frequently, but whenever you need it it'll be there, unless you don't dig 5-strings.

 

[XtheDeadPawn]

I wasn't saying the TA was the F-405 I know thier different I was just suggesting models.

 

[analogrowl]

Morning all,

Sorry for the late reply because of time offset. Many thanks for all suggestions and reply. This is a really nice community willing to help overthere.

Well i got a budget between 2000€ because i'm selling my Warwick 6-String thumb bolt-on which is a nice bass but not really suited for rock and agressive tone. I'm really looking for something that growl and that's punchy. And the warwick definitively isn't.

And i'm playing bass since 15 years now, have this warwick since 10 years so it's time to change. So i'm looking for a bass as good as this one but more suited for the kind of music i described. I didn't knew those MTD bass, not really common overseas but they looks like promising. A bit too expensive for my budget (looking at the american ones), and i'll definitively give it a try at those ESP as it'd save some money that i could use for another tube head or cab.

I really love to have a ric but i'm not sure of the B-String on the 5-String model. As i said i have a review of a good musician that told me that ric rocks in 4-String but sucks in 5.

I'm surprised that however most of you just suggested active basses. I'm not a huge addict of active bass to be honest. I somehow love a well designed passive bass with a limited control over sound via knobs that push you to make it sound with your fingers and plectrum than playing with knobs around.

I like to plug and play and not to take some minutes to tweak knobs check if they are enough power left in the preamp etc...And as said, the head and cab are just here for that. That's just my opinion so don't flamme Again i'm really happy to have such amount of reply, thanks again to all of you to help me out there. And know i'll have to make my parts of work in trying lot of bass.

 

[VeeSpade]

Well the preamp is a different thing, plus you don't have to be tweaking it all the time.
Active does it better for doom and the f-415 is capable of more than just metal/rock, for whenever you feel like it.
I'm positive on this one cause a) very few 5 string metal basses are THIS good out there and b) especially for this price.
I think it's about $750 new.Pure steal if you ask me, then again esp is known for delivering awesome gear in the lowest prices.

 

[XtheDeadPawn]

Not to be too personal but, do you play with a pick most of the time?