Double Bass dots on double bass

[svenbass]

He said this at a master class in Aspen about six years ago. Somebody asked about the dots and he said he barely uses them. I don't mean to speak for him, but this is what he said last time I saw him.

Man, I would love to go to a master class with him .. one of my favorite musicians to hear and watch.

I was just curious as I haven't read anything where he commented directly on this. He has his reasons and heck, I wouldn't care if he had neon frets on there!

 

[Bassist4Life]

If Edgar Meyer uses dots so can I..... actually inlays

Right on!

 

[Roy Vogt]

Interesting! I'm so over into the Rabbath positions that everything leads from my LH thumb. If I put dots on my bass they'd really have to be on the back of the neck!

 

[tstone]

I'm not taking a position on dots one way or the other, but for those who'd like to see a formula, here it is.

D = L*(1-2^(-N/12))

Where L is the open string length, D is the distance from the edge of the nut to the marker, and N is the "fret" number.

That's the theoretical distance to get an equal-tempered interval above the open string pitch. The actual distance to get the precise desired pitch will be a little smaller, depending on string height and on the diameter and composition of the string core. The distance will also be a little different for each string.

 

[PaulCannon]

Man, I would love to go to a master class with him .. one of my favorite musicians to hear and watch.

I was just curious as I haven't read anything where he commented directly on this. He has his reasons and heck, I wouldn't care if he had neon frets on there!

One of his students posted in a related thread today basically saying the same thing, although it looks like his percentages have gone up to 98%. I wonder how he does his calculations, anyway...

 

[drerio]

i need the dots on the side to get going.....later i may remove them

Not knowing you or your musical background, I would say the moment one says they need dots is the time to consider the need for a db instructor. Learning and getting help with both finger spacing and position will get you "going" a lot better and a lot faster. Three to six months of "good" instructions will pay more dividends than penciling in dots. There maybe other things you are missing or techniques that a qualified instructor could help you with. Make this investment count, don't short change yourself.

 

[jayscheuerle]

I've just started taking lessons and I keep thinking back to typing class in middle school. Never looked at the keyboard for all of the letter keys and I can probably type 60 wpm or so until I need a number or symbol. During that later part of the class, I constantly peeked at the keyboard and never learned them the way I did the letters, so when I need them now, I still look up and slow down. Even after 30 years...

I'm not doing that with the bass. - j

 

[Stev187]

Richard Davis (who teaches here in Madison) apparently does this thing at his clinics where he invites a student up to detune his bass.

Richard Davis is a monster player. Man, he's great. Just sayin'

--Steve

 

[MysterMunky]

When I teach my beginning students, I have them locate the harmonics to check if they are in tune. By playing with your bow close to the bridge, you can easily get harmonics where the frets 3,5,7,9,12 would be. When you locate the harmonic, you are going to try to get minimal vibrations under your finger. Move your finger around the harmonic until you get almost no vibration. Once there, use a pencil to mark the position. As the others have said, once you start playing more in tune, the pencil markings will rub off.

Good luck!

I would advise against using tapes as they tend to gunk up the fingerboard. While this is easy to take off with alcohol or steel wool, i have seen some fingerboards that were stained due to the tapes.

 

[Bass]

 

[shadygrove]

^

Nice one, Bass.

Please tell me that was done with photoshop and isn't real!

 

[Jason Sypher]

Dots schmaats, you're either going to become a great player or you're not, that's all up to you. Each player takes their own path but all those micro-decisions along the way will have a lasting effect. Choose carefully.

 

[dvh]

I put them on mine (on the fingerboard edge) at the same positions as on an electric bass when I first got it 3 years ago. They are still there.

Frowned upon? Maybe, but it was a big help and even though I don't need them so much especially up the neck, who cares?

Part of my decision was through reading about other neophyte DB players who relied on natural markings on the neck (grain, scratches, etc...)

 

[tstone]

I actually kind of like Roy Vogt's idea of some kind of markers on the back of the neck to indicate thumb positions. Not right on the back, but maybe halfway between the neck centerline and the fingerboard. When I'm headed for a certain note, I tend to think more about the destination of my left thumb than of my fingers.

 

[Jack Clark]

looks like best way to do it is with tuner......

Yeah, and after getting all your strings perfectly in tune with it, check each string for dot placement. For example, in II position you might find that the Bb on the on the G string or the F on the D string is not precisely across from C on the A string or the G on the E string. You may have to compromise and just keep in mind the slight variances.

I'm still a beginner but I'm hoping my ear gets good enough that I won't need to look at the dots. Might not happen, though.

 

[lunarpollen]

I use a broad triangular pencil marking at each edge of the front of the fingerboard to correspond where the single dots would customarily fall on a bass guitar, and a rectangular pencil marking where the double dots would be, up to the octave position. I know they aren't precise; they are just rough guides to give my extremely visual brain a sense of portioning and overall proportion. And if note positions are different because of temperature fluctuation, visual angle, imprecise pencilling, etc., my brain picks up on that very quickly and makes adjustments.

And even though they have frets, I would be lost without any dots on my guitars; in fact, I have a much easier time with dots like on Brian May's guitar (• 3rd fret, • 5th, • • 7th, • 9th, and • • • 12th, for both octaves), and I wish all my other guitars (bass and standard) had that pattern. Invalid Link Removed

It's just how my brain is wired for almost everything I do, always looking for or imagining visual reference points and landmarks, seeing/imagining shapes, zones, contours, for eveything (even for non-visual/abstract concepts). While I think actual guitar-style dots would look tacky on a double bass, other forms of markings don't bother me so much. And pencil graphite doesn't really stand out very much at a casual glance.

 

[ole Jason]

Dots schmaats, you're either going to become a great player or you're not, that's all up to you. Each player takes their own path but all those micro-decisions along the way will have a lasting effect. Choose carefully.

Well said. It would be an error to assume anything about a player just because they have a marking on their fingerboard. Even when it's not as explicit as a dot or mark, many bass players do use visual points of reference to find positions when necessary.

At the end of the day, the sound is what matters. If it takes a pencil mark for you to nail a high A every time then you should use it.

 

[Stick_Player]

When I teach my beginning students, I have them locate the harmonics to check if they are in tune. By playing with your bow close to the bridge, you can easily get harmonics where the frets 3,5,7,9,12 would be.

Unless I am not understanding this, I am not sure how reliable that is.

For example, on the G string, the harmonic near the imaginary third fret is the 5th overtone - a "D" (found by dividing the string into sixths). If you, from this point press the string down, will get a very sharp B-flat. To get a useable B-flat on a G string you have to go 18th partial (found by dividing the string into nineteenths) and that is flat by a couple cents in equal temperament anyways, and improbable to achieve.

 

[SunneyBoy]

pop the dots on there if you need them, this is tough instrument to play so whatever it takes to make your practising more enjoyable and therefore more frequent. eventually your body will develop a memory for where the notes are and stretches need to be made. much like scratching your nose it took time but I am sure you can do that now without a reference marker.

do whatever it takes to reach the final goal which is playing music , this is not obstacle course racing. enjoy your time with this beautiful beast. j

 

[ztpbassman]

I had David Gage put tiny dots on my Engelhardt ebony neck. Best thing I ever did. Since I'm primarily an electric player who doubles, it gives me a security blanket that helps when I'm a bit lost on a solo and/or when I'm reading something and want to make sure I'm dead on in tune.
Real upright players don't need them, I reckon, and now when I play basses without dots I find I can mostly play in tune without them. But to jump to a high Bb without having a marker is too dangerous ground for me.
But it is a fretless instrument so the dots are just a general guideline. Your ear has to do the final tweak.
That said, Sam Ash and other stores sell multicolored adhesive dot markers for kids learning the violin. They go on easily and come off easily without ruining your finish. I've even cut them into half circles and put them on the side of the neck on my Juzek.
The old guard is right: learn the proper way, but as Wes Montgomery and a thousand others teach us: it's the notes you play that's the bottom line (pun intended).