Double Bass Double bass pickup and mics comparison

[Michal Herman]

I did not saw this video on forum. Comparison of pickups and microphones on one bass:


For me best sound is from Shure Beta 98A. But I am curious how it will "behave" on stage. Feedback? Amplifying other loud instruments on stage? (like drums)

 

[Stuart.C]

Yeah I came to same conclusion after watching that video. The piezos sound so nasally. So it turned out the guitar player in my band had an Audio Technica pro 70.


When I tried it at home it was awesome, exactly what I was looking for. So I tried it on the next gig. I tried the in the F-hole position from the video. When I initially sound checked just the bass I thought man this is going to great. But that all changed as soon we all started playing. We are an all acoustic band, no drums. I have no amp on stage. Every one plugs into the PA. We don't really put it very loud. I thought there should be no problem using a mic at least from what I read about the issues other people faced.
But when we all started I was completely gone from the mix, could not hear anything ... except some huge boomy frequency when I played a C that would just ring. It seem like there was some interaction going on with the geometry of the place that the bass pointing a certain way would create a low frequency ringing on certain notes. It was very frustrating. at the first break I up the pick up back on.
So I guess my advise would be bring a piezo pick-up just in case

Here is a video of the same place, not the mic night so you can get an idea of at least one arrangement where a mic did not work at all:

 

[Eric Hochberg]

FYI there has been a ton of information regarding the use of mics on the forum. Try placing the mic aiming towards the top, center. You can mount it between the D and A afterlengths, supported by the tailpiece, or in foam between the bridge legs. You'll probably have more success, but it's still a dicey proposition when playing with others, especially drums.

 

[vin*tone]

...
But when we all started I was completely gone from the mix, could not hear anything ... except some huge boomy frequency when I played a C that would just ring. It seem like there was some interaction going on with the geometry of the place that the bass pointing a certain way would create a low frequency ringing on certain notes. It was very frustrating. at the first break I up the pick up back on.
So I guess my advise would be bring a piezo pick-up just in case...

Yeah this. 100%.

I have an AKG350 which I love but often hard to manage on a gig. I have it mixed in with a piezo so can pull it out if it's too hard to control. One good thing about the AKG is that it has its own switchable HPF. Sounds similar to the Shure & DPA in that vid.... and a little bit more affordable.

 

[DB Slidefunk]

Yeah I came to same conclusion after watching that video. The piezos sound so nasally. So it turned out the guitar player in my band had an Audio Technica pro 70.


When I tried it at home it was awesome, exactly what I was looking for. So I tried it on the next gig. I tried the in the F-hole position from the video. When I initially sound checked just the bass I thought man this is going to great. But that all changed as soon we all started playing. We are an all acoustic band, no drums. I have no amp on stage. Every one plugs into the PA. We don't really put it very loud. I thought there should be no problem using a mic at least from what I read about the issues other people faced.
But when we all started I was completely gone from the mix, could not hear anything ... except some huge boomy frequency when I played a C that would just ring. It seem like there was some interaction going on with the geometry of the place that the bass pointing a certain way would create a low frequency ringing on certain notes. It was very frustrating. at the first break I up the pick up back on.
So I guess my advise would be bring a piezo pick-up just in case

Here is a video of the same place, not the mic night so you can get an idea of at least one arrangement where a mic did not work at all:

I've lost count of the amount of times I've sound checked and managed to blend in a decent amount of my troll mic getting really excited about a great sound for the gig. Then of course the sound levels are way louder once the support acts have played and the volume of everything has crept up. I play the first note and helllooow feedback! Make a face at the sound guy to say what the F*&@? and turn my mic off.

Bring a piezo pick-up just in case.. Wise words.

 

[DB Slidefunk]

I wish they had the troll mic and bass band in the comparison.

 

[bassfacer22]

if you are forced into using a pickup.. Full Circle and be done with it..

and no, you don't wish they had the bass band in the comparison..

go on youtube and you'll hear that junky sound.. haha

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The Band is a top contact mic, so it is very sensitive to the point where the transducing element resides on the top. I wouldn't rule such a pickup out just because there is a bad sounding sound example somewhere.

 

[Decomposer]

The band can sound great when installed in the right spot. Very natural with good definition. I usually blend with a Lifeline or FC depending on volume of band, venue etc. I never was able to get the Ehrlund to sound right on either of my basses.

 

[rickwolff]

Yeah this. 100%.

I have an AKG350 which I love but often hard to manage on a gig. I have it mixed in with a piezo so can pull it out if it's too hard to control. One good thing about the AKG is that it has its own switchable HPF. Sounds similar to the Shure & DPA in that vid.... and a little bit more affordable.

Do you possibly mean the ATM350 (Audio Technica). I have one of those (and it does have a built-in switchable HPF). I didn't find any information on an AKG350, I did see an AKG D3500 which is a discontinued dynamic mic.

 

[rickwolff]

FYI there has been a ton of information regarding the use of mics on the forum.... it's still a dicey proposition when playing with others, especially drums.

+1 to that, Eric. I have my fingers crossed for the first time out with a new setup tonight. My carved 7/8 Double bass into ATM350 clip microphone to Headway EDB-2 to a powered speaker on a tripod at ear level AND NO DRUMS. Just piano, vocalist and bass.

i've pretty much resigned myself to living with a 'good/acceptable' amplified sound through my Lifeline for louder gigs (and those with drummers). If tonight goes as well as I hope I will be concentrating and just getting more quiet, almost acoustic, duo jobs. That's really my favorite kind anyway.

I'm going to record tonights gig, so if it's successful I can come home, put on my earphones and revel in my success.

 

[rickwolff]

MODS: this is really quit a marvelous demo that had a lot of thought and work put into it. Perhaps it should become a Sticky similar to the string sample recordings.

 

[martinc]

I like to use a mic as much as possible. Outside can be a problem if it's windy so I use my Schatten RB-1.Clean, full, without sounding like an electric bass. But inside I have had the best results with my ATM 350 condenser mic. I don't think anyone would confuse the mic with a pickup. Feedback has never been a problem regardless of the size of the stage or venue. I have an H clamp but the clip and stem from a Snark tuner, attached to the underside of the bridge, works well and is easy and quick to set up.
I clamp the ATM 350 on the stem and I point the mic at the top between the G and D string to the side of the G bridge foot. I run the mic through an ART Project Series tube (upgraded with a Mullard tube) pre-amp into the board. I have also used an Audix D-2 and a D-4 (both are dynamic mics) and got excellent results with minimal feedback problems.
No matter what mic or pickup is used, I think there are limitations in the sound. Clinically there may be differences with expensive mics/pickups but in the real world of clubs, halls and outdoor stages I just don't think it matters. Maybe if I was the new Ray Brown I might consider spending more on sound reinforcement but other than that, I would rather spend that money to improve the source.... my bass.

 

[vin*tone]

Do you possibly mean the ATM350 (Audio Technica). I have one of those (and it does have a built-in switchable HPF). I didn't find any information on an AKG350, I did see an AKG D3500 which is a discontinued dynamic mic.

Yes, sorry - the ATM350.

BTW - I've had a lot of success mounting it in the F-hole. wrapping a piece of sponge around the clip and fitting it in the hole is quite sturdy. I'll post a pic later if anyone is interested.

 

[Bass68]

The band can sound great when installed in the right spot. Very natural with good definition. I usually blend with a Lifeline or FC depending on volume of band, venue etc. I never was able to get the Ehrlund to sound right on either of my basses.

I've been wondering about the Band pickup, seems like a good design. I'm curious why do you need to blend it with another something else? What does the Band lack so it needs to be blended? I generally dislike pickups, I've been using various mics, but occasionally this does not work out well.

 

[Mandobassman]

I know this has been covered a bit (mostly by me), and I know there are quite a few non-believers, but I have been using the Radio Shack tie clip mic for the past three years with tremendous success. Sound is wonderful, I have the mic placed inside the F hole, and I never have feedback. I tried to use it between the bridge posts facing the top but I got very little gain and had to turn the volume up so much that I did get feedback. I get a deep, punchy sound that is always as loud as I need it to be. And, I have the amp two feet directly behind me and I never get feedback. I get compliments from other musicians all the time about how natural the sound is.

 

[Mandobassman]

For me best sound is from Shure Beta 98A. But I am curious how it will "behave" on stage. Feedback? Amplifying other loud instruments on stage? (like drums)

I agree that the Shure Beta 98a is the best sounding. I also like the AKG C451. I used to use a AKG D112 and thought it sounded great, but compared to the others it doesn't so as good to me now. I hated the sound of all of the piezos. It reinforces my belief that pickups are terrible. I have yet to hear one that I like.

 

[Mandobassman]

I also wanted to mention that this was a very well done comparison and clearly displays how different the tonal qualities can be from both mics and pickups.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Wow what a great video. I think we all have our preferences. What's fascinating is that all the devices have strengths and weaknesses. You choose what's best for how you want to sound but there's always a tradeoff. Still, the vid shows apples to apples comparison for the most part though placement has a huge effect. I assume he put these in these places where he got the best sound regardless of all the other stuff already placed.

The vid reaffirms for me that the DPA is what I want, and consistently works well for me in many applications, just not when it gets really loud. Shure Beta 98A is remarkable tho.

At this point, I feel like the DPA and Realist work well for me and I'm moving on to other matters, like what speaker size to use. I've found that 10" is too small. 12" is pretty good, but now I'm wondering about 15".

 

[martinc]

Very revealing video.... assuming the position of all the mics/pickups are in the best spot on the bass.
The DPA, Shure 98A, Shure 214, 451, and D112 (heavy to mount on a bass) all sound good to me in this test. The best value for the money to me is the (around $300.00) Shure 98A. Any difference in sound from the others I listed, is very small. Surprisingly bad to me in this test are the Ehrlund, Realist, Lifeline and Shadow.
With this information from the video and the posts on this website, I'd say buying a mic or pickup should be lot easier. But the big unknown is how each of our own basses will react to the same mics/pickups.