Double Bass Double Bass sound

[gypsydjango]

I play EUB. I'm trying to get as close as I can to the Double Bass sound--to get close to that 'fullness / acoustic' sound that the D/B has.
I go through a Boss pedal--the 'Acoustic Simulator'. The pedal does cut out some of the harshness of the electrical sound--OK---but lacks the ambiant sound that the D/B has. Has anyone tried to get that sound through the EUB? Anybody got closer than me? Happy with the sound?---or am I reaching for something that is inachievable?

 

[Asher S]

I've tried many things (on a solid body EUB only), and all I can say is that you will never get a decent acoustic double bass sound from an EUB, especially if your EUB is solid (i.e. not an Eminence of BSX Allegro). I simply had to accept that my EUB is what it is: a hybrid between fretless bass guitar and double bass, somewhere in the middle.

Having said that, the closest I could come to double bass was when I used a decent EQ to reduce the high freqs, boost the low freqs, as well as raise the strings a bit, add a touch of reverb, and pluck even higher up the neck for a bit more "swell". That's as close as I could come, but still way off.

I'm telling you though, the sooner you accept an EUB for what it is, the happier you'll be. If you really really want an acoustic DB sound, then play an acoustic DB.

 

[Francois Blais]

Hi Mike.
What's your setup?
Your profile doesn't list anything.

That said, were you playing DB before switching to EUB?
Or BG?
The way you pluck the strings is a very important factor in getting the sound.
Forget the electronics; the sound mostly comes from the hands.
Choosing the right strings is another important factor.
Orchestral and/or darker strings will give you a better, more acoustic-like tone than say, Spirocores, on an EUB.

 

[Barry Clark]

Backing up what Francois posted above, you have a lot to do with what your EUB sounds like. I have heard people get some very acoustic upright sounds from an electric bass guitar and people get very electric bass guitar sounds with an EUB. Your technique has SOOO much to do with it.

On top of that, another question is, and I think maybe Francois might have been hitting on this, what upright bass sound are you going for? There are as many upright bass sounds as there are upright bass and bass player pairings and they can vary wildly from bright to dull and so on.

To give you an idea of what I am getting at, my background is in electric bass guitar and am only an upright convert as of a couple of years ago.

If you ask me what you need to do to get an electric bass guitar tone, my head would explode with all of the possibilities. It is about like asking what color people are.

 

[gypsydjango]

Thanks for the replies.
Asher S; You are possibly correct in everything you said, in a nutshell: 'Accept an EUB for what it is'.
Francois; I also play D/B. My EUB is a Palatino---not the best I know--fitted with D/B magnetic pick-up, going through a Gallien Kruger combo. Yes, I agree with you; the sound comes from the hands---we are all individuals---there's only one Charles Mingus and only one Ray Brown!
Do you think one has more chance of obtaining that D/B sound with an hollow bodied EUB? Just to mention, for me, the upright bass is the only way to go. The only reason I bought an EUB was the size---some gigs I do there is very little room for the D/B, as we all know. How many times has a member of the band knocked or walked into our 'treasure'!

 

[AMJBASS]

Just for the record, the Boss Acoustic Simulator is meant to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic. I can't see it being even close to usable for an EUB.

 

[gypsydjango]

Just for the record, the Boss Acoustic Simulator is meant to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic. I can't see it being even close to usable for an EUB.

I also play guitar--both acoustic & electric. When I use the Boss Acoustic Simulator on the electric guitar it cuts out the 'harshness' (for want of a better word) of the pick-up. Same applies to the EUB.

 

[Francois Blais]

Do you think one has more chance of obtaining that D/B sound with an hollow bodied EUB?

Of course, but then why not a real DB?

 

[gypsydjango]

Of course, but then why not a real DB?

The DB wins every time. The only time I use EUB is on gigs where the space to fit the DB is limited. Someome will walk into it---or the drummers cymbels will catch it.

 

[duckyincarnate]

I agree - the DB always wins. But in terms of practical advice: you state that you have a magnetic pickup on the Palatino. I think this is a major factor in why your bass sounds like a bass guitar. Find a piezo pickup. Also, the tip of darker strings is a great one IMO. And you could raise the string height to get more of a double bass sound.

 

[Imoy]

I also play guitar--both acoustic & electric. When I use the Boss Acoustic Simulator on the electric guitar it cuts out the 'harshness' (for want of a better word) of the pick-up. Same applies to the EUB.

I think there is a good possibility of some of these digital "acoustic simulator" devices being very useful to improving the sound of the EUB. BOSS supply their digital acoustic filters in several pedals and the big multi effects units too.
These filters do a lot more than is possible with analogue EQ adjustments. On the GT-10 the "acoustic" filters have a lot more adjustments than on some of the smaller units "acoustic simulator" boxes, where many of the settings have been preset to values suitable for guitars. However the digital filter is basically the same. Firstly there is a digital filter that balances the EQ of a piezo pickup, (without phase shifting it - it can do this because its digital). Qualitatively this takes the "honk" or "squack" out of the piezo sound. Then, another digital filter adds a simulated body resonance, which is similar to reverb set on ambiance, a very short close reverb. These acoustic body resonances are copied from guitar bodies. Noby seems to have made a double bass body resonance yet. However, on some of these units the body resonance can be adjusted in size and EQ so it is possible to adjust it to approach that of double bass.
From my experiments I have been able to get a sound from the stagg EUB that is approaching the sound of my amplified double bass. The EUB has a different sustain envelope than that of the double bass, so the EUB won't be the same. The BOSS acoustic filers have though, successfully removed the piezio sound, and the resonance has put some realistic harmonic richness into the EUB's sound, that was previously lacking, so I think it is worthwhile.

I also think, for me, this endeavour is worthwhile because I enjoy the portability of the EUB. If it didn't have the EUB I would have to take the bass guitar, instead of the double bass, for certain gigs that involve some travel.

 

[eyvindwa]

From my experiments I have been able to get a sound from the stagg EUB that is approaching the sound of my amplified double bass. The EUB has a different sustain envelope than that of the double bass, so the EUB won't be the same. The BOSS acoustic filers have though, successfully removed the piezio sound, and the resonance has put some realistic harmonic richness into the EUB's sound, that was previously lacking, so I think it is worthwhile.

I also think, for me, this endeavour is worthwhile because I enjoy the portability of the EUB. If it didn't have the EUB I would have to take the bass guitar, instead of the double bass, for certain gigs that involve some travel.

Very interesting! Do you play both fingerstyle and arco on your EUB? I have mine mostly for arco (I have no real double bass), and would be very interested in how to get a more 'acoustic-ish' arco sound.

 

[Imoy]

Very interesting! Do you play both fingerstyle and arco on your EUB? I have mine mostly for arco (I have no real double bass), and would be very interested in how to get a more 'acoustic-ish' arco sound.

I don't play arco much, I'm a jazz player and I generally play arco when practicing scales, well I used to, on the double bass. So my playing is 90% pizz.

The main issue with a solid EUB is firstly the piezo pickup and secondly the lack of body resonance. For instance Fishman make this digital box that makes acoustic guitars, with piezo pickups, sound like nicely miked guitar.
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However the piezio pickup is the best option. Magnetic pickups will make the EUB just sound like a big bass guitar.

For EUB's with solid bodies, the only way to make them sound like they have a body is to add some digital resonance. At some point somebody, perhaps Fishman, will make a digital image of double bass, to play an EUB through. Until then experimenting with various digital boxes that add digitaly modled guitar resonance or very short reverbs is possibly the only available option.

 

[mrpackerguy]

You have to kind of accept it for what it is. Physics and wood and all that are at play. That said, with my WAV4 and Spirocores and in the pizz setting, it sounds as close I can get it and as mentioned above, that's with the hi's cut, the lows boosted and the mids generally on slightly engaged on my K&K Pure. Even then, I go back and forth on the WAV4 with the switch (pizz and arco settings) because even though you don't get much sustain with pizz on a real DB (or in the pizz setting on the WAV4), I kind of like that "sustainy" sound on the WAV4 which lets you emphasize slides and vibratto.