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Double Bass double bass tuned in fifths

C

contralto2836

Aug 12, 2011
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#1
Good morning everybody !

I've just registered on the forum.

I am a french double bassist student and I am proud of seeing that there are great double bassists daring defend the tuning in fifths.
I admire the way Joel Quarrington and his distinguished colleagues play the real double bass as a solo and orchestral instrument in its own right.
My "problem" is the double bass tuned in fifths is not taught in french music conservatories and I wonder how I could tell my teacher I wish study in fifths thus I play viola too. So I can play fifths tuning without much difficulties, I think.
Furthermore, I suppose the tuning in fifths is not admitted in exams in France.

Please tell me what you think about.

Thanks you for yours advices.
 
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#2
I should imagine any tuning is acceptable even in exams as long as you play well. The bass is tuned in 4ths for a reason. You will also find a lot of solo repertoire off limits with 5th tuning (Bottesini etc.). I know the urge is to keep the fifths from the viola so you feel more at home but you will run into trouble later on. Think and talk this one through with some professional players (not just JQ, who is the exception, not the rule) and come down to earth a bit. If, after 5 years as a professional player you want to experiment with 5ths tuning then do so, but learn the bass as it is first.
FC
 
#3
Good Morning to you, also. You might be interested to read the thread in the Miscellaneous forum called "Not Another Fifths Tuning Thread" (or something similar). The discussion wanders all over the map, but there is at least one young conservatory bass player who, like you, has taught himself to play in fifths. His problems are similar to yours, and I think you will find his comments very interesting and helpful.

Welcome to the forums!
 
#4
Also, there is this one "Tuning in 5ths vs. a five string" which gets quite combative at times. The only thing I have to say (and I say it every time it comes around) is that if you're a conservatory student then it will likely be expected that you learn certain standard solo rep, not all of which was written for GDAE tuning, but has been played that way for way over a century. Of similar importance is the orchestra rep, much of which wasn't written with any particular tuning in mind, but again, GDAE players have been working on it for over a hundred years, and some of it is still freakin' near impossible to play.

Whether this or that particular excerpt or concerto is playable in fifths I won't say, but learning bowed string instruments is something that really does require an experienced teacher and established pedagogical method. Self-taught geniuses just don't occur in the classical music world.

If you can find a way to have a second, fifths-tuned bass to practice on concurrently, then go for it. As a student though I'd put my eggs in the fourths basket until after exams and a successful audition:)
 
#5
robobass said:
As a student though I'd put my eggs in the fourths basket until after exams and a successful audition:)
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This is what my teacher iterated to me--experimentation with these types of things should come after you've mastered the accepted version first. If it really is something that'll make your playing better or just a tuning you'll enjoy more, it's best to hold off on it until you've got playing the bass under your belt.
 
#6
fergus currie said:
I should imagine any tuning is acceptable even in exams as long as you play well. The bass is tuned in 4ths for a reason. You will also find a lot of solo repertoire off limits with 5th tuning (Bottesini etc.). I know the urge is to keep the fifths from the viola so you feel more at home but you will run into trouble later on. Think and talk this one through with some professional players (not just JQ, who is the exception, not the rule) and come down to earth a bit. If, after 5 years as a professional player you want to experiment with 5ths tuning then do so, but learn the bass as it is first.
FC
Click to expand...

From what I have read Bottesini wrote a massive portion of his works with fifths tuning in mind -he used several different tunings. Also, I have read that the Bottesini Method Book was written with fifths tuning in mind and that Yorke edited it to make it applicable to today's primary tuning.
 
#7
PRUNEFACE said:
From what I have read Bottesini wrote a massive portion of his works with fifths tuning in mind -he used several different tunings. Also, I have read that the Bottesini Method Book was written with fifths tuning in mind and that Yorke edited it to make it applicable to today's primary tuning.
Click to expand...

Where did you read that? (Obviously) it's completely wrong. Bottesini played in fourths with three strings, normally up a whole step to A-E-B, sometimes up a minor third to A#-F-C.
 
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#8
benharrisfan said:
Where did you read that? (Obviously) it's completely wrong. Bottesini played in fourths with three strings, normally up a whole step to A-E-B, sometimes up a minor third to A#-F-C.
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How do you know this? You don't cite any scholarly sources. You need to do this, although Pruneface doesn't:)

Edit: Sorry, that was unfair. Although, actually I'm pretty sure that Oscar Zimmerman tuned in fifths for most of his career.
 
#9
fergus currie said:
I should imagine any tuning is acceptable even in exams as long as you play well. The bass is tuned in 4ths for a reason.

Over the many years, I have used a variety of tunings for various reasons - mostly orchestra concerts that would do better with a change. Most common for me was a GDAD giving me that low D to complete the 8va under the cello line. It's easy if you just think the D down an octave - D, E, F# etc. I have also used a GDAC and GDGC depending upon what was being played. The last two required a low C string and remembering that you should keep that same tuning for the whole concert. It's fun and is more musical than just the old "up an octave".
PS I was too cheap to ever buy a 5 stringer plus I really liked my ol' 4 stringer.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com
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#14
PaulCannon said:
"The tuning in fifths which is to be found in some countries is absurd. It leads to hardness of sound and continual shifting, which makes playing difficult, uncertain and incoherent." - G. Bottesini (A New History of the Double Bass, Paul Brun, 128.)
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I am trying to find my reference right now. I could be wrong though, I could be thinking of some second hand supposition that I had read.
 
#17
I agree... fourths has so many advantages. For one, the ability to play whatever scale or sequence you like without shifting (if you count pivots as not shifting, which I do). You totally lose that tuned in fifths, you can't reach even with the pivot. Even in thumb position it feels like fifths is a lose.

Bass is bass, let it be what it is.
 
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#19
Idunno,

it often feels like so many of the people who give a damn are the people who are bass players who never tried it. every violinist, violist, and cellist i've ever spoken with thinks it makes a huge amount of sense.

Playing in 5ths isn't hard, it's not better, it's not some huge deal. For me 5ths has been a godsend for the chamber music festival i'm attending, even though all the pieces i've played are normally played in 4ths (including the Bottesini elegy, Carnival of the animals, and The Trout Quintet). the 4th variation in the trout (mvt 4) has a nasty 16th note triplet chunk in A minor played in unison with the cello that is definitely made easier having a high A and a low G, there are also some runs in Carnival of the Animals that the low g is definitely an advantage. I spend more time matching bowings, articulation and musicality, and less time figuring out how to make the run work.

Come the end of summer, I'll put my bass back in 4ths and go back to school. I'll miss it, but I tune in 4ths to get the most out of my teacher. Long tem I want to study with Joel Quarrington or someone else who tunes in 5ths, because I like it and I find it works for me. I'm at a point in my playing and in my life where I'm focusing on what feels good for me and don't give a flying fridge what anyone else thinks. As for auditions, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, but i'm not worried about tuning in 5ths holding me back at all.

You guys go on philosophizing, I'm gonna practice.

eerbrev
 
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#20
eerbrev said:
Idunno,

it often feels like so many of the people who give a damn are the people who are bass players who never tried it. every violinist, violist, and cellist i've ever spoken with thinks it makes a huge amount of sense.

...
Click to expand...

Hey, if you can do it, do it. More power to ya. Your argument seems rather silly though. Violins, violas, and cellos, as far as I'm aware, have significantly shorter string lengths than double basses. I may be wrong, but my impression is that since the notes are closer together, then you need to shift much less than with the bass, and the distances of shifts are also much smaller. In fact, I'm pretty sure that this is why fourths tuning was adopted in the first place.
 

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