Double Bass Doubler, Headway, and now Clarus?

[Adagio]

Yep, that's exactly the same issue that would happen on an EDB1. By limiting the input volume somewhere between 1 and 2, I'm able to fix the issue on the Headway but it makes the signal/noise ratio rather bad at higher volumes. On the other hand, no matter how low I set the input on the Clarus, it doesn't solve the problem. I guess the "level" pot is not the first in the chain, making it more of a "channel level" rather than an "input level". No doubt, the Doubler is better designed in this regard.

I might try to put together a quick & dirty padded cable by myself, with the info in this thread. Who knows?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

FWIW, at the ISB, Rick was displaying the new version of the Clarus head which incorporates the New 4 band preamp used in the new preamp. Neither were working units.

 

[Ric Vice]

But honestly, I have been considering selling the SA and picking up a Series 3 Focus2R lately. Why you might ask? There is something very tempting about simplifying ones rig IMO. An AI head and a great cabinet is about as simple as it gets.

Nathan,
I was just at the ISB convention in Rochester NY. AI is releasing a new amplifier, incorporating the Flex Preamp married to the Clarius+ power section. It has all the features of the Flex.

Ric

 

[rickwolff]

Hey folks, this is kinda old but I finally had my anticipated G.A.S. episode and got myself a Clarus amp a few weeks ago. This amp sounds really great with any pickup and mic I've tried, exactly what I was looking for! I've even rediscovered my Full Circle which sounds way better with this amp than with anything else I've tried so far.

The thing is, while it's awesome through a cab, I got distortion on low E through low G when I monitor it through headphones (DI out). It's seems to be somewhat similar to this thread. and to what I experienced with FC and Headway.

I've tried several things:

FC -> Clarus Headphones out -> Mixer = Distortion
FC -> Clarus DI -> Mixer = Distortion
FC -> HPF3 -> Mixer = Distortion
FC -> HPF3 -> Clarus -> Mixer = Distortion
FC -> Doubler -> Mixer = Ok!

Now what? I clearly prefer the Clarus over the Doubler, does anybody has a hunch on the cause and possible solutions?

What is it that your prefer about the Clarus to the Doubler. I've been thinking about getting a new bass head to power a Big E 45. (I am still also considering a QSC k-10 -- any thoughts?)

 

[Adagio]

It's hard to tell exactly, and it is very subjective, but the tone is much better through the Clarus. I've blind tested both amps with 3 people, both with a flat setting and an "optimized" EQ, and everyone chose the Clarus over the Doubler. The difference is subtle, but the Clarus renders my bass' character at its best, while I feel my sound is somewhat compressed, more electric sounding with the Doubler. The Clarus' option of sending channel 2 through the DI but not through your cabs is neat too, if you use a mic.

On the other hand, the Doubler is quite more punchy with my electric basses and so I've decided to keep it for that.

As for my distortion problem with the Clarus and FC, I contacted Acoustic Image and they offered me to mod a channel to dim the input gain. I sent my amp over and then they did their magic. Everything works fine now, no need to put a buffer between the amp and my bass. I'm so glad I asked! Sincerely, kudos Acoustic Image for a awesome customer service that is beyond all expectations. My next gear will be AI all the way. But with my modded Clarus, I don't think I will be in need of another amp anytime soon!

 

[Ric Vice]

What is it that your prefer about the Clarus to the Doubler. I've been thinking about getting a new bass head to power a Big E 45. (I am still also considering a QSC k-10 -- any thoughts?)

Rick
I've seriously considered both the Euphonic Audio Doubler and the Acoustic Image Clarus+ at one time or another, they are both fine amps, built by very reputable companies.

What they lack, IMHO is the ability to fine tune midrange frequencies, through a separate high and low midrange control. When the new Flex Head from arrives from Acoustic Image that problem is no longer an issue. The Doubler does address this by setting the mid EQ points differently on it's two channels, but I'd rather have the ability to boost and cut those frequency ranges myself.

Acoustic Image will offer the Flex System as a pre amp only, (which would match nicely with a QSC K10) or a complete amplifier, in the near future, so I'd certainly recommend waiting to audition these new products, before I made a purchase. Since the Flex powers the Phantom at 48 volts you're going to get the most
out of that microphone. Just my thoughts

Ric

 

[wneff]

I didn't read every post on this thread, so please excuse if this is already mentioned. I always press the "mute" before I turn the amp off and that prevents the pop.

I really love mine, I play through a K&K w/o preamp directly into the doubler and it sounds great and is flexible.

I also play it for all but the very loudest gigs with electric bass with simply a NL-210 or the wizzy 12.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

.................

What they lack, IMHO is the ability to fine tune midrange frequencies, through a separate high and low midrange control..........,

Those of us who have been around here for a few years will remember Bob Branstetter. He once told me that when he didn't like the sound coming out of the amp, rather than changing the amp, he would change the bass. I believe in that philosophy as well. Change the strings, setup and pickup to get a nice sound with the chosen amp using a flat Or nearly flat EQ setting.
I didn't like the sound of AI amps before I really loved the sound of my bass. Now nothing sounds better.

 

[Ric Vice]

Those of us who have been around here for a few years will remember Bob Branstetter. He once told me that when he didn't like the sound coming out of the amp, rather than changing the amp, he would change the bass. I believe in that philosophy as well. Change the strings, setup and pickup to get a nice sound with the chosen amp using a flat Or nearly flat EQ setting.
I didn't like the sound of AI amps before I really loved the sound of my bass. Now nothing sounds better.

+1 Greg,
It took me years, and a gifted bass repairman to get my bass producing sound. He changed the neck angle, the size of the bridge, plained the fingerboard, replaced the sound post, and had me use different strings. When he was finished, my bass sounded like a totally different instrument. Once that was accomplished, I went about choosing a amp that would reproduce the sound my bass makes acoustically.

I was fortunate enough to have had the money to buy a Walter Woods amp, at a time when they were less expensive than they are now. The combination is a great match. If I were to buy an amp now, based on all I know about Acoustic Image's customer service and the new Flex system, then I'd own an AI. With my particular instrument getting the mid's set the right way makes all the difference in the world. Just my take.

Ric

 

[Adagio]

When amplifying a DB, having a 4 channel EQ in indeed quite useful to tame an offending frequency without killing your tone, I even prefer a fifth channel when it comes to playing arco. That's pretty much the only complaint I'd have about the Clarus, and that's obviously addressed in the next version.

Also +1 on the comment about caring about the bass tone rather than the amp. I fell like many of my attempts to mix PU and amp resulted in a good fidelity in reproducing the pitch and dynamics mostly, but there is so much than that in the sound of a DB! I mean, when a steel string and a gut string sound just the same through your amp, what's the point of trying to improve your bass? Anyways, I'm just glad I've found my dream setup now. Perhaps now it's time for a new set of strings?

 

[rickwolff]

Adagio, Ric, and Greg,
Thanks for all the great input! Where but TB could a person find such quick access to such a fabulous knowledge base (bass?).

This will sound off topic at first but it's not. Re: changing you bass first -- I recently got a 7/8 Shen Willow flatback and I LOVE it. I have always used Spirocores and had them put on this bass (I was trying it out at the bass shop when one of the luthiers came out to 'see where that sound was coming from'. The owner of the shop said: "That's funny, he never comes out here." Great bass, great strings, BUT, besides jazz, I used to do some orchestral playing (I just got back to the bass after a 25 year hiatus) and I was not happy with the G string arco (I guess we've all heard that before). Besides arco, there was a 'nasal' or slightly twangy sound on the G string even pizz that started to bug me. Long story shorter - I put on an EP mit (after talking with Mark Gollihur). My first impression was: "I can't possibly give up that Spiro sustain for a string like this. But after spending nearly $50 I decided I owed it more than 5 minutes on the bass. The more I played it the more I liked it and I really don't think I can or will go back. There is such a 'sweetness' to the sound both arco and pizz that I can't keep myself from frequently walking over to the bass and just 'playing' with it . It actually does have a very nice sustain - just not that long rrrrrrrrring that you get with Spiros that I was so used to.

So here's the point: I could have spent months and thousands of dollars trying to tweek and EQ that 'nasal' sound out of the bass when what I really needed was a different string. I will probably change the D to an EP as well and leave the Spiros on the E and A.

So thanks for channeling Bob Branstetter, Greg! I feel that I am getting very close to DB nervana and it feels really good. Now I feel I'm almost ready to get the amplification rig that will simply reinforce the sound I am already loving.

Thanks, again !!
Rick

 

[Adagio]

It's funny how our experiences with strings are similar. When I first got my Shen willow, I hesitated between Spiro and Evah. I went with the Sweich set but the G was too thin sounding and the D was uneven (higher volume, causing feedback). I ended up switching both for Olivs and while I think this is a great match, I've always been curious to try a set of EPweich. I have to try it out someday, probably only to find out that I cannot live without Spiro E & A. Who knows?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Try the EP weichs on the bottom. I like them with Olivs.

 

[rickwolff]

Try the EP weichs on the bottom. I like them with Olivs.

Greg,
I'm guessing that msg was for Adagio since he also has Olivs on the top, but what is the difference, and what do you prefer about the EP Weichs vs the mits (standard)? In talking to Mark G. he said the gauge is almost identical and he thought the Standard EP would blend well with my Spiro mits - and I think it does so far with the G.
Rick

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

The EP weichs are much easier on the hands and have more clarity than the orch gauge.

 

[Ric Vice]

Rick,
I used Spirocore Weich's for a very long time, but just like you mentioned, they are not solo bowing strings. They actually work fairly well in the bass section of an Orchestra, where they have enough "edge" letting you hear what you are playing. I've learned to love EPW's because they have just enough sustain, and a more distinct attack, with less over ring than the Spiros. It's a trade off for sure, but I like using the bow to solo with, so for me they are a god send.

Ric

P.S. You can get Spiros to work under the bow if you leave them on the bass for a couple of years, but by that time, they lose most of their pizzicato sound.

 

[drurb]

...P.S. You can get Spiros to work under the bow if you leave them on the bass for a couple of years, but by that time, they lose most of their pizzicato sound.

I suppose that's a Spiro weich thing. It sure doesn't seem to hold for the mitts.

 

[Ric Vice]

I suppose that's a Spiro weich thing. It sure doesn't seem to hold for the mitts.

Les,
I'm not certain why this happens and, frankly even when they are very played in, the arco tone isn't near the quality of the Evah Parazzi's. The differences between Spirocore Weich and Spirocore Mitten's are the gauge of each string, and the softness of the core. I used Spirocore Mittens about 6 years ago, and if I remember correctly they produced more sound from my bass, but were harder to finger, due to their larger size. As I have smaller hands, Weich's were easier for me play on. I've been told by luthiers that the reason they are not as responsive with the bow, is that their is no damping material (silk) between the core, and the outer wrapping.

Ric

 

[rickwolff]

Rick,
I used Spirocore Weich's for a very long time, but just like you mentioned, they are not solo bowing strings. They actually work fairly well in the bass section of an Orchestra, where they have enough "edge" letting you hear what you are playing. I've learned to love EPW's because they have just enough sustain, and a more distinct attack, with less over ring than the Spiros. It's a trade off for sure, but I like using the bow to solo with, so for me they are a god send.

Ric

P.S. You can get Spiros to work under the bow if you leave them on the bass for a couple of years, but by that time, they lose most of their pizzicato sound.

Now I have a small $50 dilemma. I put a standard guage EP ('mit') on the G and I like it a lot. I have not tried the Weich's. I plan on leaving my Spiro mits on the E and A. Now I want to go EP for the D string. Should I stick with the standard guage to match the G (I'm thinking that makes sense)? I seem to be hearing a lot of love for the Weichs on TB - how much and what kind of difference is there between the two? I'm OK with the Spiro mits and want EPs that will play well with those. So, Standard or Weich for the D?? If I match the G I can always go to Weichs when string change time comes around which I believe will be sooner with EPs than Spiros (which is like, never).

 

[Ric Vice]

Now I have a small $50 dilemma. I put a standard guage EP ('mit') on the G and I like it a lot. I have not tried the Weich's. I plan on leaving my Spiro mits on the E and A. Now I want to go EP for the D string. Should I stick with the standard guage to match the G (I'm thinking that makes sense)? I seem to be hearing a lot of love for the Weichs on TB - how much and what kind of difference is there between the two? I'm OK with the Spiro mits and want EPs that will play well with those. So, Standard or Weich for the D?? If I match the G I can always go to Weichs when string change time comes around which I believe will be sooner with EPs than Spiros (which is like, never).

Rick,
I'm not one to combine strings of different compositions. That said, I think I'd stick with as close to the same gage strings in Spirocore's and Pirastro EP's. So I'd go with the middle gage for all four strings. Others may disagree and results may vary.