Down with the Piccness -- and Thiccness -- for science!

[nabilhuakbar]

Why hello there, everyone.

This morning I noticed that I have an ever-increasing number of picks laying around and so I decided that today I'd answer a question that I've been wondering for a while now: are there really differences in pick attack and tone depending on material and thickness? Are those differences really that noticeable? Is it a bunch of wine-tasting snake oil BS or is there some truth to those claims?

Here's the test:

I ran my Harley Benton PJ-75 through my Boss GT-1B pedal, with an amp simulator, light over drive, and gain modding preamp applied. All songs were picked between the neck and bridge pups. I then ran through the gamut of picks I have, doing the following steps:

1. Picked harmonic on the 10th fret. 4 strokes palm muted, 4 strokes open. Of those 4 strokes, the first 2 are plucked with what I'd consider "normal" firmness and the second 2 are plucked harder. That way you have a couple of A/B examples in close succession while taking string sound out of it as much as possible.

2. Run-through of the riff in "Hey Man Nice Shot". 2 Bars palm-muted, 1 bar plucked "normal" and the next one plucked hard. 2 more bars open, 1 plucked "normal" and the other plucked hard.

3. Run-through of the riff in "Schism." One bar plucked normal, the other hard.

4. Run-through of "The Pot" high riff -- one bar plucked normal, the other hard.

5. Run-through of "The Pot" low riff -- one bar plucked normal, and the other hard.

After today I think I've learned a few things that I can put to rest.

Material type DOES matter...you will notice differences in tone and attack with them, but that's also affected by:

Thickness. Thinner picks spend a longer time plucking the string, so they have a more scrape-y sounding attack and they also make you work harder for dynamic control.

There seems like an upper limit to how much thickness affects tone, though...after about 1.5mm, it sounds (to me at least) like you're treading into personal preference territory. I personally like the way picks that are 2mm and larger feel...partly because they do more work and give me more dynamic control. Different material and edge types will yield slightly different tones, but ultimately...

The tone differences aren't really that huge, with the exception of the V-Pick Snake I used.

In the next post I'll be sharing with you my lineup of picks used as well as audio files so you can listen for yourself and tell me what you think!

 

[nabilhuakbar]

So here are the picks I used:

We have, from left to right:
A Fender Thin pick
A mystery brand "We Will Rock You" pick I got with a strap -- .73 mm
A mystery brand "We Will Rock You" pick -- .88mm
A Dunlop Tortex pick -- .88mm
A Star Pick .88mm
A mystery brand "We Wil Rock You" 1mm
A Dunlop Nylon 1mm
A Dunlop Gator Grip 1.14mm
A Star Pick 1.14mm
A triangle Tortex 1.14mm
A Dunlop 500 1.5mm
A Dunlop Gator Grip 1.5mm
A Dunlop Gator Grip 2mm
An Ernie Ball Prodigy triangle 2mm
A Tusq sharp/round triangle 2mm
A Gravity Striker 3mm
A V-picks Snake 4mm.

Not sure of the materials with the mystery picks...they felt like a blend of delrin and maybe some vinyl in there? I dunno, I'm not a pick expert. I'm still not sure on the material for most, but I will say this:
The V-picks snake is some kind of hard plastic that sounds completely different from everything else. I'm not a huge fan of the sound but maybe some of you out there will like it.

On with the examples:

First I recorded fingers as a control of sorts. Also forgive my crappy finger playing, I've been neglecting it a lot of late and it shows. Fingernails are freshly cut at least:



Next up we have the Fender Thin:

Followed by the Mystery Meat We Will Rock You .73mm:

The WWRY .88

annnnnd then buckle up. I'm Captain Ahab and you'll follow me on my descent into madness chasing after a white whale.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

After that, we have the Dunlop Tortex .88mm, which was my go-to pick back in my 6-string days:

After that, the Star Picks .88mm:

Didn't take long to determine that I hate these -- the cutout in the center makes the pick really bendy and I'm not a fan.


After that we go into 1mm territory and officially enter the land of Thiccness with this mystery meat We Will Rock you 1mm pick:

And some interesting, slightly different tone from this Dunlop Nylon 1mm:

We move over into Gator Grip territory here with a 1.14:

Another (ugh) Star Pick, in 1.14mm

And thennnn what I believe is Justin Chancellor's pick of choice, a Tortex 1.14 mm triangle guy:

Here's a Gator Grip 1.5mm:

And then finishing off the sub 2mm pack, is this Dunlop 500 1.5 mm. It has a much glossier finish than the others and, at least in my opinion, the difference is pretty audible as well. Unfortunately these picks are also a total pain to hold on to so I pretty much never use them.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

And now we're in the 200 club

Starting off with my personal favorite pick so far, the Dunlop Gator Grip 2mm:

And then we get to where thickness stops mattering so much, but things like edge shape and material still can make a difference.

Here's the Ernie Ball Prodigy triangle 2.0mm, which are surprisingly expensive and once you get past 1.14mm, triangle picks are a lot harder to come by for some reason. Which is a bummer, because I like thicc triangles the best.

I really dig these, and they may become my new go-to.

These Tusq picks are a bit of an odd duck...they have two sharp edges and a rounded one. I recorded separate tests for the sharp and round.

And then we get to the really expensive guys.

This here is a Gravity Standard Striker 3mm...it's made out of some kind of hard plastic, and it feels different from the delrin/tortex/celluloid/whatever the hell else material most common picks are made out of. Attack is noticeably different from everything else here as a result.

And then finally, a pick I desperately want to like because it was so freaking expensive, but I just can't no matter how hard I try: The V-Picks Snake 4mm. It's also a weird hard plastic material and something about it...I don't know if it's the edge bevel or what, but it pretty much always produces a really weird, clacky, streaky sound when I pluck it. Maybe my technique is wrong, I don't know...but things sound kind of fake and hollow when I play with it (at least to my ears.). I honestly really like the thickness but I don't like the tone or attack at all.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

Conclusions:

I honestly think that thickness doesn't affect tone much after 1.14mm...and even then, it's hard to tell an appreciable difference. I like thicker picks because they do more work for me, and it feels appropriate to use a big ol fat pick to make the Thor Thunder Cables of a bass guitar give unto us their bounteous musical delights.

I think that materials make a difference, to an extent -- again, once you get past a certain thickness threshold most of the delrin/tortex/whatever material sounds pretty much the same. Edge sharpness and bevel seem to make a bigger difference, and those hard plastic picks produce a pretty different attack.

I want to get some picks in other crazy materials next. Wood, felt, rubber, bone, stuff like that. Anyone have any recommendations?

Because while I believe that a good bassist can play equally well with fingers and a pick -- and I really do believe that -- the truth is, for a lot of the music I play I like a pick better.

Anyways thanks for sticking through the madness and pictures. I'd love to hear what other people think...am I hearing things that don't really exist? Or do you hear things that I'm overlooking?

 

[Watchootognbout]

Thick Inflexible Picks.That's the way.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

Thick Inflexible Picks.That's the way.

fun fact, that was actually the thread that got me on a kick of 2mm+ picks. I really like them a lot more now.

 

[P_Robyn]

As a finger-style player, I gotta say that I'm having a PICNIC with this thread! So you can nick your pick, and pick your nick ... who knew?!?!

 

[nabilhuakbar]

As a finger-style player, I gotta say that I'm having a PICNIC with this thread! So you can nick your pick, and pick your nick ... who knew?!?!

Pick puns are highly encouraged here. And I'm glad this is proving helpful to someone!

 

[nabilhuakbar]

If anyone's reading this, I just ordered some felt, wood, and bone picks so we can throw up some samples of those there soon-ish.

 

[stratovani]

I'll stick with my tried and true Fender 351 Medium celluloid picks. They're easy to hold and play in the Bobby Vega style, I can "palm" them for songs that require both pick and fingers, they're not clacky, and you can buy them almost anywhere.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

I'll stick with my tried and true Fender 351 Medium celluloid picks. They're easy to hold and play in the Bobby Vega style, I can "palm" them for songs that require both pick and fingers, they're not clacky, and you can buy them almost anywhere.

The problem I've always had with the fender celluloid picks is that they just seem to wear out so fast. I used to love those medium picks for acoustic guitar but one would barely last me a decent session with a ton of strumming.

 

[stratovani]

The problem I've always had with the fender celluloid picks is that they just seem to wear out so fast. I used to love those medium picks for acoustic guitar but one would barely last me a decent session with a ton of strumming.

Fortunately they're pretty cheap. I keep two dozen in an Altoids tin. I haven't had any problems with them wearing out, the problem I've had is losing them on stage!

 

[basscooker]

I haven't used a pick in a very very long time. Definitely a fingerstyle player. I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on steel or brass or copper, or whatever metallic picks.

When I did use a pick I had some sort of metal one. Maybe why I never really took to it. Pure icepick on glass. It cut through the mix though.

Tried the big Fender triangle one for a bit, and the Dunlop 2mm. Just never got it.

Anyway, thoughts on metallic?

 

[nabilhuakbar]

I haven't used a pick in a very very long time. Definitely a fingerstyle player. I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on steel or brass or copper, or whatever metallic picks.

When I did use a pick I had some sort of metal one. Maybe why I never really took to it. Pure icepick on glass. It cut through the mix though.

Tried the big Fender triangle one for a bit, and the Dunlop 2mm. Just never got it.

Anyway, thoughts on metallic?

I never liked them on 6-string guitar, it always felt like I was going to break the strings with them.

Might be different on bass, though. I ordered a bunch of "exotic" picks for my Round 2 of experimentation...maybe I'll try a few different coins and a metallic pick or two as well. More than anything else, it's handy to have a reference of what different attacks sound like.

 

[starjag]

So cool. Picks are likely the cheapest tone-altering tools!

 

[nabilhuakbar]

So cool. Picks are likely the cheapest tone-altering tools!

Yeah, they really are! I'm hoping to do something useful in this thread and give some rough ideas of what different picks sound like so people can maybe use that to see if they'd like to try out different thicknesses and materials to get different tones.

I've got a couple Dunlop Variety Packs in and also some more exotic picks -- bone, wood, and leather. I'm just waiting for a couple of my metal picks to come in the mail and I'll make up a Round 2 of this.

I've gotta say though, I really, REALLY, like the leather pick. It wears out super fast but it gives you a really cool, muted, warm tone like you'd get with your fingers but it has the sharper attack of a pick. It's like the best of both worlds.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

an update, in case anyone cares:

I have all of my exotics in now -- I'm gonna be testing wood, felt, leather, copper, brass, a steel/nickel alloy, and bone. I've been looking around everywhere for a rubber pick but they seem either a bit harder to find or I'm not in the mood to shell out a bunch more cash on an expensive pick right now. I'm just waiting on my second Dunlop Variety pack to come in and then I'll make a Round 2 update with all of those picks.

All of my testing is being done on a P/J with rounds and everything dimed. The strings aren't brand new, but they're not super worn out yet either...I think they're about 2 months old and have seen medium use. Not super heavy but the bass hasn't just been sitting around doing nothing either. I just threw some flats on my jazz bass, so I'll be doing a test of most, if not all, of these picks with it as well. The attack is a ton different since we don't get nearly as many overtones of the pick scraping against the string.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

Annnnd here we go, round 2 of testing and recording is DONE.
Same methodology as before -- each string 4x 10th fret harmonic palm muted, then again open. play through the riff from "Hey man, nice shot" 4x -- 2x palm muted, first time regular strength, second time picked hard. 2x open, first time regular 2nd time hard. Riff from "Schism", first time regular, second time hard. Riff from "The Pot," first time regular, 2nd time hard -- high part and then low part.

This has been quite a learning experience, but so far I can conclude a few things:
Material choices matter -- differences between plastics like delrin and tortex are pretty subtle when it comes to actual tone, but the amount of flex you get will radically affect your playing and control. The exotics all produce pretty different effects and if you're looking to do cool things with your tone on the cheap, get some picks made out of things other than plastic.

Thickness matters to a point -- I don't like thin picks and I think below .88 is too think for a bass personally. Thickness doesn't really seem to affect tone as much as it affects how it feels to play. Thinner picks make you work harder, and using them can potentially cause some long-term nerve issues if you're technique isn't great or if you're like me and you use the 6-string anchoring technique even though you know you shouldn't anymore. You get more dynamic control with thicker picks, but thinner picks have a bit more give to them and so they are better for songs that require some strumming. Trying to play Ace of Spades or Whole Lotta Love with a 2mm pick is murder, but with an .88-1.14mm pick it's a pleasant experience.

Pick sharpness and edge radically affect how your attack sounds -- sharper edges scrape on the strings less so they sound different.

Strings matter -- this one is obvious, but roundwounds sound a ton more scrapey. I plan on doing an abbreviated version of this test on my Jazz bass with flats to see how these sound.

On with the show!

Here are our test subjects today:

 

[nabilhuakbar]

First off we have a Dunlop Thin Celluloid pick.

I hated this pick.

Honestly I like the sound of celluloid but this thing was just too thin to get any kind of attack or dynamic control out of. That's to be expected, thin picks don't go too well with the Thor Thunder cables that are bass strings.



Next is the second thinnest pick of the bunch:

same issues as the celluloid, too thin for bass. This would be great for strumming an acoustic guitar though.

Dunlop Maxgrip .60. I tells ya what, they aren't kidding about that. These guys are grippy AF.

Here's a Dunlop Ultex .60. I really like the feel of these but still too thin for bass