Double Bass DPA mics

[DoubleBassBass]

Would love to get views and stage experience using the DPA D-vote 4099 (Cardioid) in comparison to the SC4061 Omni (the DPA 4011ES sounds wonderfully rich but that seems a bit out of reach at present). I play in a jazz / classical trio with keys and violin. Been a while since I posted on here and its good to be back!

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Do you use IEMs or wedges?
That will usually be a deciding factor when picking between an Omni or Cardioid.
Omnis are going to pick up a lot of background sound, so things like wedges and amps will bleed into the mic as well as risking more chance of feedback.
Cardioid will be safer in a live performance situation but will not sound as nice as a condenser Omni.

So really depends on the environment.

 

[Endlesssolo]

I think the DPA 4099 is a hyper cardioid pattern, and if you’re talking about amplifying live performance, sound isolation is almost certainly biggest challenge, so you want directional rather than Omni.

But there’s another mic that you should check out, the Nadine. There’s a really good comparison between the two on you tube.

 

[neddyrow]

I prefer the Nadine to the DPA. The DPA was far more sensitive for the applications I used them for. The DPA is more HIfi as a result, but if you are gigging, I would recommend the Nadine. Either way, in-ears are the way to go for both mics.

 

[Ric Vice]

I bought the DPA 4099B when they first arrived. In those days we got a professional's introductory discount when DPA rolled them out. They were the best thing out there at the time the only other choices we had were the ATM 35 and the AMT which are very fine microphones in their own right but
the DPA had better off axis rejection and isolation with my bass in the venues I perform ( concerts, clubs, and local outdoor festivals) There was just something missing from the DPA 4099 and I didn't love the mounting system, so I moved to the Remic (Green) D 5400 LB. It's mounting system gives
you more options ( under the fingerboard, between the bridge feet, under the tailpiece) where the DPA is more limited and the accessories i.e. qooseneck extension and heavy duty cable are not cheap. The Remic D5400 LB has a very unique pickup pattern that really helps suppress feedback
and still gives you some of the essential warmth of the bass. Just my take. I don't take the microphone back to the amp but I could if I wished to do so.

 

[LaFaro01]

I also went for the Remic and I still really like it... but it might be interesting to compare it to the new Neumann MCM System, which seems to be a quite interesting alternative to the DPA and also the Remic's...

Miniature Clip Mic System MCM

Elevates electret principle to Neumann sound standards✔️ Durability increases ROI up to tenfold✔️ A single capsule for loud and soft instruments✔️ Works with key transmitter bodypacks✔️

www.neumann.com

 

[Mgaisbacher]

I also went for the Remic and I still really like it... but it might be interesting to compare it to the new Neumann MCM System, which seems to be a quite interesting alternative to the DPA and also the Remic's...

Miniature Clip Mic System MCM

Elevates electret principle to Neumann sound standards✔️ Durability increases ROI up to tenfold✔️ A single capsule for loud and soft instruments✔️ Works with key transmitter bodypacks✔️

www.neumann.com

If I were buying a mic at this moment in time the Neumann would be my top choice. (I do own one) A very highly regarded live sound engineer I know speaks highly of them and thinks they are the best thing on the market. I know of a band who switch to them for every instrument from a mix of DPAs and AMTs

From my understanding they are truly designed for acoustic instruments in live settings. I had a DPA for years and never had any major issues with it but the Neumann seems to be a much more well thought out purpose made clip on instrument microphone.

 

[Ric Vice]

Just a qu

If I were buying a mic at this moment in time the Neumann would be my top choice. (I do own one) A very highly regarded live sound engineer I know speaks highly of them and thinks they are the best thing on the market.

Mgaisbacher,

Just curious. What experiences have you had with the Neumann on your bass? Do you send it FOH? back to your amp? Both? Neumann’s reputation with microphones is unparalleled that’s without a doubt. The best recorded sound I’ve ever gotten from my Mirecourt bass was with a LDC Neumann U87. That said both my Remic D 5400’s sound great the Remic DB 5400LB (Green) FOH with my bass,using an Ehrlund EAP, the Grace Felix, and a MAS 1/8 is heavenly. Just my take.

 

[Happy Steve]

DPA comparison of directional and omni mics:

Directional vs. Omnidirectional microphones

This article list all the performance-related differences that exist when comparing omnidirectional and directional microphones.

www.dpamicrophones.com

I personally use a Tonedexter. My favourite wavemap was made with a Remic 540 ('white'), my second favourite with a Superlux omni calibration mic.

Steve

 

[Ric Vice]

Steve,

While this is good general information for sure, comparing a DPA 4099 Devote Core to the Remic D540 (in my case a Remic D 5400LB) or the Neumann MCM 114, may be like comparing Apples to Oranges to Pomegranates. I like them all while the Remic’s are easier to mount and give me the best sound. Just my take of course. It’s a horse of a different color for almost everyone.

 

[coyote1]

I’m getting excellent results from the cardioid Audix F90 (same as ADX90) condenser. These show up used (and occasionally new) for less than $150 on various sales sites. It’s sold as a drum mic, but it does a great job as a bass mic.

If you look at the image, disregard the mic lead wire - it is merely coiled up under the bridge for storage. What I did is to remove the metal clip from the mic mount, and wedge the rubber bloc between the A and D strings at the tailpiece. It holds there just fine, and is pointed at the wood directly below the bridge.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Just wanted to throw this out there from some experience using a DB live on stage.
It doesn’t hurt to have a contact pickup like a bassmax on hand for times in volatile environments, like small loud bar stages. Mics are always the best sounding but in a pinch you could do something like use a bassmax for monitoring or sending to an amp, then use a DPA type mic to send to FOH. DB can be a bit troublesome for inexperienced engineers to work with and having a backup plan doesn’t hurt.

Personally I went to a makeshift IEM system for monitoring myself and just told the engineer to leave me out of the wedges unless someone else wanted it. Always had issues with feedback from inexperienced foh engineers.

 

[Ric Vice]

Just wanted to throw this out there from some experience using a DB live on stage.
It doesn’t hurt to have a contact pickup like a bassmax on hand for times in volatile environments, like small loud bar stages. Mics are always the best sounding but in a pinch you could do something like use a bassmax for monitoring or sending to an amp, then use a DPA type mic to send to FOH. DB can be a bit troublesome for inexperienced engineers to work with and having a backup plan doesn’t hurt.

Personally I went to a makeshift IEM system for monitoring myself and just told the engineer to leave me out of the wedges unless someone else wanted it. Always had issues with feedback from inexperienced foh engineers.

It’s certainly the safest way to get a decent sound FOH because even the finest of piezo pickups through the best of bass heads
don’t really reproduce the nuances of a Double Bass, when you send them FOH and “blow them up under the microscope” I can get
a very nice sound with the Ehrlund EAP through a RedEye Twin preamp, into the Grace Felix and out a powered MAS 1/8. It pales in comparison to
the bass timbre and depth coming from a Remic D 5400 LB (Green), Remic D 5400 (Red)* or any other decent microphone. Most sound engineers
are great with mic’s and only so so with pickups, because they are more adept with EQ ing microphones. Just my take. I’m personally not a fan of the Bassmax on my bass, the EAP sounds so much better, unfortunately the Ehrlund is expensive and it has to have the RedEye twin behind it.

 

[Mgaisbacher]

Just a qu


Mgaisbacher,

Just curious. What experiences have you had with the Neumann on your bass? Do you send it FOH? back to your amp? Both? Neumann’s reputation with microphones is unparalleled that’s without a doubt. The best recorded sound I’ve ever gotten from my Mirecourt bass was with a LDC Neumann U87. That said both my Remic D 5400’s sound great the Remic DB 5400LB (Green) FOH with my bass,using an Ehrlund EAP, the Grace Felix, and a MAS 1/8 is heavenly. Just my take.

I will be honest, so far I haven't had much experience using it in a live setting since I haven't been touring as much as I used to but my set up would be the same(and is basically the same as my friend who tours extensively and uses the Neumann). Which is a blended signal sent to FOH through a Felix.

IMO, for smaller in town gigs, a pickup through the Felix (or any preamp) is all that is needed unless it's a big room or I am playing a lot of Arco. I don't see the point in over complicating the sound set up for a bar gig.

For me personally, if I were using an amp on stage I would send the pickup line only from the Felix to the amp (there is a way to do this via the toggle buttons on the back) since to me the amp is basically just a monitor for myself, while the blended signal was sent to FOH. I have a MAS 1/8 but a friend has been borrowing it for about 5 years since I rarely ever need an amp and often when I do I was playing places where one was backlined.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

It’s certainly the safest way to get a decent sound FOH because even the finest of piezo pickups through the best of bass heads
don’t really reproduce the nuances of a Double Bass, when you send them FOH and “blow them up under the microscope” I can get
a very nice sound with the Ehrlund EAP through a RedEye Twin preamp, into the Grace Felix and out a powered MAS 1/8. It pales in comparison to
the bass timbre and depth coming from a Remic D 5400 LB (Green), Remic D 5400 (Red)* or any other decent microphone. Most sound engineers
are great with mic’s and only so so with pickups, because they are more adept with EQ ing microphones. Just my take. I’m personally not a fan of the Bassmax on my bass, the EAP sounds so much better, unfortunately the Ehrlund is expensive and it has to have the RedEye twin behind it.

I was just using the bassmax as an example, there are definitely better sounding contact pickups. I always played on less professional stages, bars and backwood festivals so the bassmax was cheap and would work in any monitor or amp without feeding back. As far as what I sent to FOH was a EV RE20, simple classic and didn’t require phantom power. A bit of a space hog but tried and true mic for years.

 

[Ric Vice]

I will be honest, so far I haven't had much experience using it in a live setting since I haven't been touring as much as I used to but my set up would be the same(and is basically the same as my friend who tours extensively and uses the Neumann). Which is a blended signal sent to FOH through a Felix.

IMO, for smaller in town gigs, a pickup through the Felix (or any preamp) is all that is needed unless it's a big room or I am playing a lot of Arco. I don't see the point in over complicating the sound set up for a bar gig.

For me personally, if I were using an amp on stage I would send the pickup line only from the Felix to the amp (there is a way to do this via the toggle buttons on the back) since to me the amp is basically just a monitor for myself, while the blended signal was sent to FOH. I have a MAS 1/8 but a friend has been borrowing it for about 5 years since I rarely ever need an amp and often when I do I was playing places where one was backlined.

Blending a microphone (any microphone) with a piezo pickup, is a complex recipe IME. To much pickup will change the timbre and you loose the tone quality of the microphone in the blend. To much blended microphone and you loose the additional headroom it provides. For me, with my bass , it’s a Catch 22 setup. Added to that, there can be phase issues between the two sound sources, where the signals end up dueling with each other and on top of that, you are dependent on the technical expertise of whoever is running the FOH sound to EQ two signals vs one. Sending the pickup back to the amp and the mic FOH is the only way to go IME, IMHO. Even with my Grace Felix, running a Remic D5400 LB and a Ehrlund EAP (through the RedEye Twin) into a powered MAS 1/8 I don’t hear any audible benefit from blending the two, on a big.concert stage or club. Just my take of course some folks swear by it.

 

[Oscarharboe]

Ive used the DPA 4099 together with either realist or ehrlund and blended in an acoustic image clarus 2ch amp the last ten years when I started gigging professionally. I usually assign the dpa for the upper frequencies and set a rather high setting on the lowpass filter on this channel, while blending in the piezo for the more bassy spectrum. The DPA has slowly started to die on me however, and the last few years Ive tried a few different alternatives to the DPA. A lesser known alternative from Pyle actually gave me great results tonally (and given I paid 70 usd or so a real bargain), but the mounting thing was too thin and it can loose its position too easily. Tried the Nadine and Remic but they produced way more feedback than I was used to with the DPA, but now I just gigged my new Neumann MCM 114 and have to say the hunt is off! Really great balanced sound, didnt feedback all though it was a loud stage with monitoring set too loud, and I didnt really need to blend in the lifeline. Really sturdy mounting and a super stiff mounting clip makes it very trustworthy. More time will tell but for the time being Im super happy with it!

 

[Ric Vice]

…………IThe DPA has slowly started to die on me however, and the last few years Ive tried a few different alternatives to the DPA. A lesser known alternative from Pyle actually gave me great results tonally (and given I paid 70 usd or so a real bargain)………..Tried the Nadine and Remic but they produced way more feedback than I was used to with the DPA, …………….but now I just gigged my new Neumann MCM 114 and have to say the hunt is off! Really great balanced sound, didnt feedback all though it was a loud stage with monitoring set too loud, and I didnt really need to blend in the lifeline. Really sturdy mounting and a super stiff mounting clip makes it very trustworthy. More time will tell but for the time being Im super happy with it!

I didn’t own my DPA 4099 long enough to experience any issues, but I’d always surmised that it’s essentially a “disposable” throwaway design and
over time, with lots of use will eventually stop working. My educated guess is Neumann ( hopefully after many years of reliable service) will have similar issues. The new Remic Reshape has a detachable mounting system, so I’m anxious to try it out for just that reason. It’s also a Super Cardioid which should help with feedback. The Remic Red will definitely feed back as it’s a Omni while the Remic Green has a more feed back resistant capsule and it’s a lower gain microphone by comparison. Just my take however.

 

[Oscarharboe]

I didn’t own my DPA 4099 long enough to experience any issues, but I’d always surmised that it’s essentially a “disposable” throwaway design and
over time, with lots of use will eventually stop working. My educated guess is Neumann ( hopefully after many years of reliable service) will have similar issues. The new Remic Reshape has a detachable mounting system, so I’m anxious to try it out for just that reason. It’s also a Super Cardioid which should help with feedback. The Remic Red will definitely feed back as it’s a Omni while the Remic Green has a more feed back resistant capsule and it’s a lower gain microphone by comparison. Just my take however.

I dont really think there are any flaws to the DPA design quality-wise (despite the thin cable), but I thought it was about time to try something else. The Neumann looks very sturdy though, and you can swap out just the capsule itself making repair costs being much more manageable.

 

[Ric Vice]

I was not aware that you could swap out the capsules on the Neumann 114! That puts it on a whole different level of repairability vs other manufacturers. This is great news!!! I’m still so comfortable with my set of Remic’s , the way the that foam camera mount offers three different placement options, and the sound I’m able to get from either of those mics (Red for recording, Green for live performance) that I’m set for many years to come. The Ehrlund EAP into a RedEye twin preamp is my main go to for amplifying a bass, but FOH it’s the Remic Green 5400LB. Not saying that I wouldn’t like to try out the Neumann 114 though.