Driver, replacement, more headroom.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DrB00M, Apr 17, 2021.


  1. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    I am familiar with the "you can't just plug in any speaker and expect it to sound good" angle. So if that's all you can provide, please refrain from doing so, as well as refraining to insist why it is the only answer. It's not. If Eminence can do it, so can someone here I'm sure. My cab is a 8 ohm 350 watt fender pro series 115. I love it. I have customized it so I do not want something else. I want it to have more headroom, that's all. So I would like to replace the stock 350 watt speaker with a 500 - 600 watt speaker.

    The interior dimensions are 22.5 x 16.75 x 16.75 inches, giving me 3.65 cu ft of interior volume. It has two ports, round, 4" diameter by 6" long. It also has a horn I do not use taking up minimal space. It has two 2x4 supporting cross beams inside which reduces the interior volume by 0.12 cu ft, if that matters, and I'm sure it does - that's why I provided it. And 1.5" thick sound absorbing batting on 80% or so of the interior walls. Tolex cover.

    I have searched the internet extensively, I have even attempted the free programs out there but I can't make heads or tails of what the results are telling me, nor if I even know what the numbers really mean. And I know I can ask Eminence, but I don't want to be limited to one brand. And I've been told that Eminence is not always a good choice for bass applications. What I need is for someone to suggest a few speakers that might work for me, even if you think Eminence IS the right choice. If someone can provide about three examples or so, of speakers from lowest priced to highest, that would be great. As I already pair it with a 210 cab with lots of mids and attack, I would like the 115 to cover the warm low end frequency spectrum without mud. So clear, deep lows I guess is the best way I can describe it.

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  2. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Is your cabinet the Bassman pro 115 with the Neo driver?
     
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  3. eJake

    eJake

    May 22, 2011
    New Orleans
    Oh terribly sorry Mr Horse you forgot to respond in the form of a question.
     
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  4. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    No. The only identifiable feature is the "Fender Bass Amplification" Badge and a smaller "Professional Series "badge on the lower right. I had the speaker out of it when I customized it and it had a ferrite magnet so it can't be the neo. It's hard to find. Discontinued. Have found none used so they are keepers. I know mine is. I don't want to mess with it but the driver is getting old now and I may as well get the headroom I want if I am going to swap it out. Total weight is around 55lbs. Here is a stock image of it: 500.jpg 001.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  5. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Ok, this helps. What you appear to have is the transition model between the 250 watt Bassman 115 which used a stamped steel driver based on the Delta platform (though fairly customized for Fender), and the Bassman Pro Neo cabinet. I believe your cabinet uses a cast frame woofer with a fairly large motor and a slightly extended (compared with the average off the shelf models) edge wound voice coil .

    Can you verify if yours has a cast basket? (or post a picture of the rim of the driver).

    If you have what I think you have, I would leave it alone. You aren't going to get any significant performance increase by changing the driver since the guys at Fender doing these lines of speakers did a good job of getting the most performance out of those enclosures. The rating of 350 watts is conservative compared with the numbers you are seeing in driver advertisements and spec sheets since those are thermal only and may be over-rated by as much as 30%. The Neo version is similar, but the driver and parts of the cabinet are lighter.

    (disclosure: in case you were unaware, I worked as an engineer for a company under the Fender umbrella a "while" back).
     
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  6. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    It is cast. I appreciate your advice and will probably take it. I can testify to the fact that this cab is probably rated conservatively at 350watts as I have run a Mesa M9 Carbine amp head through it alone, which is rated at 900w @ 4ohms and 450w @ 8ohms and it preformed well even at high volume, although it did lose some of it's clarity. I used it that way for years with no apparent harm. Now I use the TT-800 (800w at 4ohms) head and pair this cab with a 500 watt 210 cab (Hartke Hydrive) and though they perform very nicely together, I'm just afraid that I'm gonna blow something eventually. Most likely the Hartke. But you're right, I know. I wish I could find the Fender's 210 companion to this one, but like I said earlier - you just can't find any out there - used or otherwise. I wanted to invest in the mesa ultralite bass cabs, but they make the darn things too narrow and my rack wouldn't fit on top of them. And I haven't seen any rack cases at the 19.5 inch width they're making their cabs now. I suppose they want you to use the head with no rack case but that's just asking for an accident. But anyways, I have digressed enough.

    I thank you for your information and great advice. Thanks!:thumbsup:
     
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  7. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Have you looked at the 210 (rotated 90 degrees with the horn towards the top) or 410 which is ~23-1/2" wide)?

    As far as the 115 and 215 goes, they are narrower than any ATA rack will be, but pretty close for the compact SKB style (though I would not put a heavy amp like a Carbine in one).
     
    MCF likes this.
  8. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    Some good things to think about. My Carbine is in it's original case and I wouldn't change that. And I don't really use it anymore due to its weight.
    20210217_143945.jpg

    It's my new TT-800 that I already bought a gator case for, not too pricey so I would set it aside if I could find one that fits the new Mesa cabs better. I'm an old horse myself and I wouldn't mind the lighter cabs to go along with my 7lb head, that's for sure! Maybe that 2x10 Mesa wouldn't be so bad on its side to replace my Hartke. 2x12 on its side in place of the 1x15. Actually, what do you think of the 2x12 alone - ever use them? How do they sound? - hmmm - Ya got me thinkin, Stallion!
     
  9. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Your best bet is to ask the players who have played the various models. The big Subway thread is a good place to start.
     
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  10. ahc

    ahc

    Jul 31, 2009
    No. Virginia
    @DrB00M I see you're fairly new here so welcome to TB. In case you didn't know, @agedhorse designed the Mesa Subway line of amps and cabs including your TT800.
     
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  11. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY

    I think I've come to a good decision. A little background to the story: I think I've been approaching this from the wrong angle. I've been trying to carry the low end for the band by myself with just my rig and these small, cheesy compact subs the band owns that do almost no good at all for us. The kick drum is weak and pathetic and if it weren't for my rig, we'd have no low end at all. So instead of trying to upgrade my rig, I think I'm going to upgrade the PA subs and look into a single high powered sub. I'm going to keep what I have because I am happy with how it sounds and just spend my money on a good sub. This way I don't have to be so loud and hard on my rig, and improve the overall sound of the band. I just got a commitment from one of my other band members that if I paid for the sub he'd help with its set up and transport. So - again - Thank you!
     
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  12. Another plan might be to buy a replacement driver for your box, if they are still available, and stow it away as insurance. Use the one you have as it's meant to be used. If it comes to pass that you never need the replacement, you could eventually resell it as new old stock.

    Upgrading the PA system subs may be enabling the others in a volume war, in which case you may be placed in a position to be working your cabinet harder.
     
  13. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    What PA subs do you have now?
     
  14. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    To be honest, I have no idea. I don't handle them at all. My rhythm guitarist is our PA guy, and all I know is when it's time to do the sound check, he spends an absorbent amount of time trying to get those things to work at all, and when he finally does, he can't get enough volume out of them to do any good. I tend to not even go through the PA so as not to take up most of what little output he can get out of the subs. It's just barely enough to get the kick into the mix, and even then he has to pipe some of it through the mains. I know he picked them up used years ago just to add a little bit to the bottom end but they never served their purpose very well, and now that I'm trying to downsize, their inefficiency has become glaringly noticeable. They have no identifying badges and I've never asked what they are. They're about the size of a small monitor, and while size doesn't always matter :smug: in this case, it does.

    I've been looking around all morning and found this deal at Sweetwater: Behringer B1800XP 3000W 18 inch Powered Subwoofer. I know Behringer isn't the best choice, but for the price, anything will do better than what we have, I'm sure. It's got great reviews though so that's a plus.
     
  15. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    Thanks, but I already have a 410 Mesa Powerhouse as back up. Just too heavy and I'll only use it at larger outdoor venues. And I'm always on the lookout for good deals so, your idea is always a possibility.
     
  16. vvvmmm

    vvvmmm

    Dec 6, 2016
    Chi
    IME, soundchecks that require such "an absorbent amount of time" often result in, eh, bad sound. :D
     
    agedhorse likes this.
  17. DrB00M

    DrB00M

    Jan 23, 2021
    Amherst, NY
    My point exactly! And it's always because of them damn subs. They're junk.
     
  18. If you want a sound system that covers the full audio spectrum, you need subs. The problems arise when the soundman is an amateur and hypes the bottom end on everything in an attempt to shake all the dust loose in the room.
    On the opposite end of the spectrum, I went to a concert a few years ago at a soft seat venue, Crystal Gayle and Lee Greenwood. The highs were so brutal that I was wincing constantly through the show, until I finally walked out. I've never been back to that venue since.
    Sound quality can capture or alienate an audience.
     
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  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    My suggestion is to actually sort out your PA problems BEFORE assuming that the problem is the subs. They may be PART of the problem, but the fact that it’s been going on for more than one gig tells me a lot more about your problem than what you are saying.

    If you don’t even know what they are, how can you assume they are the problem?
     
    byacey likes this.
  20. MCF

    MCF

    Sep 1, 2014
    US
    My TT800 and Subway 4x10 is wider. And it sounds wonderful.
     
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  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Jun 20, 2021

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