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Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

#101
dwm74 said:
If anyone saw the know-it-all clown on VH1 Classic Rock n Roll Fantasy Camp telling the rest of the band to play in Drop D, then sounding like a complete fool when the keyboard player asked what the actual chord he was playing. He rattled off four different chords before he figured out what was actually being played. "Uh... F...no, it's D...uh, no it's C#...wait, I mean G..."
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Everyone knows you don't need a keyboard player, anyway. He shouldn't be asking those sorts of questions. It just goes like this... Dudh duh dudhd duh. \m/(><)\m/ :D

I'm sure I'll catch hell but to be honest I don't know what key my songs are in. I just hear what's in my head, try to figure it out on the board, and show my guitar player. Then again, I've never really paid attention to technique or had lessons or whatever. I can play major, minor, and pentatonic scales but other than that I don't really care to tell you the truth. If it sounds good, it is good and all else doesn't matter... That's the way I see it, anyway.
 
#102
zachoff said:
Everyone knows you don't need a keyboard player, anyway. He shouldn't be asking those sorts of questions. It just goes like this... Dudh duh dudhd duh. \m/(><)\m/ :D

I'm sure I'll catch hell but to be honest I don't know what key my songs are in. I just hear what's in my head, try to figure it out on the board, and show my guitar player. Then again, I've never really paid attention to technique or had lessons or whatever. I can play major, minor, and pentatonic scales but other than that I don't really care to tell you the truth. If it sounds good, it is good and all else doesn't matter... That's the way I see it, anyway.
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*gasps*

Informally trained (I was trained to an extent but not on bass) musicians can write music?? Teh horrorz!! :eek::eek:
 
#103
zachoff said:
Everyone knows you don't need a keyboard player, anyway. He shouldn't be asking those sorts of questions. It just goes like this... Dudh duh dudhd duh. \m/(><)\m/ :D

I'm sure I'll catch hell but to be honest I don't know what key my songs are in. I just hear what's in my head, try to figure it out on the board, and show my guitar player. Then again, I've never really paid attention to technique or had lessons or whatever. I can play major, minor, and pentatonic scales but other than that I don't really care to tell you the truth. If it sounds good, it is good and all else doesn't matter... That's the way I see it, anyway.
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That's all that matters. To be honest, sometimes when I've hit a roadblock in my playing, I'll take a phone number from one of my contacts and use the numbers as an order for a riff - fret wise. It sounds good more often than you'd think.
 
#104
JimmyM said:
i have a hard time caring what other bassists think about how i play. there's always someone who has a better idea, and bassists are quite often myopic yahoos who think their way of doing things is the only way to do it. but bass players are such a tiny part of my band's audience that their opinions are quite meaningless to me. if you like what i do, great. if you don't, then leave.

i suggest all bass players adopt this attitude more often, quit worrying about what others think of you, and for those who feel compelled to voice their opinions about what other bass players do that they don't like, nobody cares.
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I'm gonna hafta ....I gotta... uhhh...


+1.
 
#105
Maybe I just don't understand it, but why do you need different tunings? If I play A, it's A right? doesn't matter where I play it...

i don't look down on it, I just don't like it - same with distortion. sounds like butthole.

We once had a friend come over and jam (we play reggae) and our friend is a death metal guitarist ( who is in a big local florida band ) and he comes over, we start jamming and he starts wailing and soloing mostly out of key. Finally we ask him to give us some rhythm guitar in Dm .... and he can't do it. "wheres Dm?"

we look at each other "uh...5th fret."

he replied with something along the line of .. " But i'm in drop___ tuning"

thats how all my experiences with drop tuning has gone.
 
#106
Drifta said:
Maybe I just don't understand it, but why do you need different tunings? If I play A, it's A right? doesn't matter where I play it...

i don't look down on it, I just don't like it - same with distortion. sounds like butthole.

We once had a friend come over and jam (we play reggae) and our friend is a death metal guitarist ( who is in a big local florida band ) and he comes over, we start jamming and he starts wailing and soloing mostly out of key. Finally we ask him to give us some rhythm guitar in Dm .... and he can't do it. "wheres Dm?"

we look at each other "uh...5th fret."

he replied with something along the line of .. " But i'm in drop___ tuning"

thats how all my experiences with drop tuning has gone.
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And that's why you don't like drop tuning, because you don't understand in what context it is useful.
 
#107
Burlington said:
And that's why you don't like drop tuning, because you don't understand in what context it is useful.
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Can't figure out simple OD/distortion - check.

I can see how actually using the tuning keys on his bass can be dumbfounding... :o

Weird how they go both ways, ain't it. :)

Btw, we tried out C standard, and drop Bb last night. Was cool for some stuff, not so much others. I got my low B all the way down to F and I was still rockin'. :bassist:
 
#108
rockstarbassist said:
Can't figure out simple OD/distortion - check.

I can see how actually using the tuning keys on his bass can be dumbfounding... :o

Weird how they go both ways, ain't it. :)

Btw, we tried out C standard, and drop Bb last night. Was cool for some stuff, not so much others. I got my low B all the way down to F and I was still rockin'. :bassist:
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Damn that's low! What are you, Meshugga??? :D :bassist:
 
#109
Burlington said:
Damn that's low! What are you, Meshugga??? :D :bassist:
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LOL nah they top out at F#... :o :D

Well that's the drop string key for Bb, and since my NS5 is setup for the drop C tuning, that was the only logical thing to do! We haven't even committed to Bb yet though not by a long ways, but if we do I'll be using one of my 4's instead. I was able to get useful notes and it sounded surprisingly good, but I wouldn't want to try and use it for anything consistently.
 
#110
rockstarbassist said:
Can't figure out simple OD/distortion - check.

I can see how actually using the tuning keys on his bass can be dumbfounding... :o

Weird how they go both ways, ain't it. :)

Btw, we tried out C standard, and drop Bb last night. Was cool for some stuff, not so much others. I got my low B all the way down to F and I was still rockin'. :bassist:
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Can't figure out? no sir, I just don't like it. it's got no place in any music I play.

Now you're just 'looking down' on me because I don't like the same thing. I can see how actually learning how to play the fretboard could be dumbfounding... Can't escape from the fact MANY of the people that you will run into that drop tune, play tabs/metal music/ play unison lines and don't know the fretboard. Thats my experience, and many others have, and thats why it gets a bad rap. This is what the OP wanted to hear, so his side of the argument can flame mine. futile.
 
#111
Drifta said:
Can't figure out? no sir, I just don't like it. it's got no place in any music I play.

Now you're just 'looking down' on me because I don't like the same thing. I can see how actually learning how to play the fretboard could be dumbfounding... Can't escape from the fact MANY of the people that you will run into that drop tune, play tabs/metal music/ play unison lines and don't know the fretboard. Thats my experience, and many others have, and thats why it gets a bad rap. This is what the OP wanted to hear, so his side of the argument can flame mine. futile.
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You stated in your original post that you did not understand it.

I'm not looking down on you at all, and look, you're trying to insult me saying I don't know how to play the fretboard, when you don't even know me or have any idea of my ability.

I have met just as many guys that play in E standard tuning that did not know the fretboard whatsoever.

FWIW, I don't just play in a dropped tuning. And in the near future my band will be starting to wright songs for extended range instruments, and honestly I'm looking forward to playing in this band and using a standard tuning.
 
#112
Drifta said:
Can't figure out? no sir, I just don't like it. it's got no place in any music I play.

Now you're just 'looking down' on me because I don't like the same thing. I can see how actually learning how to play the fretboard could be dumbfounding... Can't escape from the fact MANY of the people that you will run into that drop tune, play tabs/metal music/ play unison lines and don't know the fretboard. Thats my experience, and many others have, and thats why it gets a bad rap. This is what the OP wanted to hear, so his side of the argument can flame mine. futile.
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Then why are you on page 6? And what is this magical style that you play that cannot be fathomed in anything but standard tuning? I can guarantee you somebody better than you has played your music in an alternate tuning.

I know plenty of folks (like yourself, admittedly) who can't handle dropped tunings b/c you don't know how to use them or incorporate them. I've heard over the years numerous seasoned vets who you mention simply drop D and their face gets white and stricken b/c their ears can't adjust to anything but the basics, which is fine. I'm good in pretty much anything available b/c I practice and learn new things. And I've seen a lot more crappy n00b wannabes actually trashing songs in standard E than anything drop. At least in drop, you have to perk up your ear a bit more and follow what the guitars are doing. In std E and for most basic covers it's a free for all and who knows what the end results are. Which are usually wrong/sour notes.

Again, just b/c you can't do it, doesn't mean nobody else can. :thu: Or maybe you hang out with crappy players a lot to make yourself feel better so you see that more than me, who knows. I don't actively seek out garbage... :o

And remember to add your magic musical style! :hyper:
 
#113
I'm probably just going to end up reiterating what a lot of people have already said, but the only animosity I've really come across is a dislike of drop-D tuning. I think this stems from an association with nu-metal/"RAWK" bands in which the guitarists want to be able to play one-fingered power chords (and typically aren't that good). This is a little unfair as it is also put to good use by several more "respectable" guitarists, but for them it seems to be more an occasionally used facet of their playing, as opposed to a shortcut to being able to bash out endless walls of power chords.

The merits of drop-D bass are much harder to understand, (though I believe Roger Waters started using it a lot on later Floyd albums) as you won't be playing full chords, and having that fifth interval will initially be confusing if your basslines are vaguely melodic. However, I wouldn't rule it out as a playing style if you've got the patience to get used to that. Having worked a lot on my slide guitar recently, I've found these unusual intervals are easier to get used to than you might think. But I do think the perceived snobbery is just down to an unfortunate genre association - drop-D needn't be a bad thing!
 
#114
I think it's a combination of a few things. (1) It is a pain in the neck to have to retune an instrument just to play a certain song. It's not like slipping on a capo. (2) People erroneously claim it makes the music sound heavier. No it doesn't. It just makes it sound lower pitched. Heaviness comes from dynamics and texture. (3) People claim it makes it easier for the vocalist when they tune down a half step for all of the songs. Um, unless you are only doing songs that coincidentally contain the same highest note just at the limit of your vocalist's range, this is a load of bull. Any difference that is felt is purely psychological.
 
#115
lunarpollen said:
I think it's a combination of a few things. (1) It is a pain in the neck to have to retune an instrument just to play a certain song. It's not like slipping on a capo. (2) People erroneously claim it makes the music sound heavier. No it doesn't. It just makes it sound lower pitched. Heaviness comes from dynamics and texture. (3) People claim it makes it easier for the vocalist when they tune down a half step for all of the songs. Um, unless you are only doing songs that coincidentally contain the same highest note just at the limit of your vocalist's range, this is a load of bull. Any difference that is felt is purely psychological.
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1. It's only a pain if you have to re-tune. If all of your songs are in the same tuning then it doesn't really matter.

2. Same dynamics, same texture, a lower tuning does sound heavier.

3. I'd venture to say this is true for some & not for others. Everybody's different.
 
#116
rockstarbassist said:
Then why are you on page 6? And what is this magical style that you play that cannot be fathomed in anything but standard tuning? I can guarantee you somebody better than you has played your music in an alternate tuning.

I know plenty of folks (like yourself, admittedly) who can't handle dropped tunings b/c you don't know how to use them or incorporate them. I've heard over the years numerous seasoned vets who you mention simply drop D and their face gets white and stricken b/c their ears can't adjust to anything but the basics, which is fine. I'm good in pretty much anything available b/c I practice and learn new things. And I've seen a lot more crappy n00b wannabes actually trashing songs in standard E than anything drop. At least in drop, you have to perk up your ear a bit more and follow what the guitars are doing. In std E and for most basic covers it's a free for all and who knows what the end results are. Which are usually wrong/sour notes.

Again, just b/c you can't do it, doesn't mean nobody else can. :thu: Or maybe you hang out with crappy players a lot to make yourself feel better so you see that more than me, who knows. I don't actively seek out garbage... :o

And remember to add your magic musical style! :hyper:
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Wait, so you're telling me now that I can't handle drop tuning? :confused:

And why would anyone want to follow what the guitars are doing? A lot of the times I don't even play with guitars. Guitars are annoying. I have my own brain i'll follow my own basslines & guitars can follow me if they want. :bassist: I play with more keyboardist/organ players and horns.

I'm not sure why you're questioning my ability as a musician. You're becoming the reason people look down on your drop tuning. I never said others can't do it, or shouldn't do it. And yes, I've never come across anyone who drop tunes in reggae/dancehall/ska. Maybe there are, but i've never seen it, and i don't see a reason to ever need it.

now all you drop tuners that were looking to hate on someone who has the opposite view can hate on me, I'm not insulting what you do though..

" In std E and for most basic covers it's a free for all and who knows what the end results are. Which are usually wrong/sour notes. " I'm not sure I understand that...
 

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