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Drum Volume :(

K

konodl18

Jun 6, 2008
186
2
Wisconsin
#1
Hey there guys, Just wondering what you all do for drums in your bar bands. Our drummer has a Roland e-drum kit but we hate to use it for it's serious lack of visual appeal. We play bars with capacity from 100-200 and sometimes the volume from the Ludwig drum set we use is a real issue.

We have applied gels/remo-rings/gaffer-tape to the toms and they sound sweet without mic'ing in many situations. But the effin' cymbals are hot! Have tried many different ways of taping/muting/muffling the cymbals but they usually end up sounding like crap or still being too loud. :(

Just looking for ideas or experiences. Drum shield is probably not an option.

Derek
 
#2
We have the same problem. There is not much more that can be done short of the drummer learning to play with more finesse. One thing that sometimes helps though (keep in mind it suck for the rest of the band at first) is reducing your stage volume. Make it so the drummer has to play softer just to hear anything. Eventually he'll get used to having to play softer, and it will save everyones ears.
 
#6
get quieter cymbals or get the drummer not to bang so hard. it's kind of a bummer to hear a drummer not bang hard in certain types of music, but it doesn't sound like you're one of those bands if you're using v-drums currently.

btw, i'm with you...i hate the look of v-drums on a gig. maybe if i was in a kraftwerk tribute band i'd like them, but not otherwise ;)
 
#7
What we are doing now it triggering the entire kit. The drummer has stuffed his kit with foam and they barely make a sound acoustically. The jury is still out on if we are going to stick with it but it has made a huge difference so far.
 
#8
Alesis has a new line of cymbal triggers. Regular cymbals with a plastic undercoat that kills the acoustic output, and sensors added for the trigger and choke functions.

If you're happy with the other treatments you've applied to the kit, and it's only the cymbals that are a problem, they might be just the ticket.

This thread makes me sad. I grew up playing with older jazz drummers. To a man, they could all get a good sound and hold a rock-solid groove, right down to a whisper.

The problem isn't that acoustic drums are too loud, it's that modern drumming techniques don't allow for any dynamic subtlety...
 
#10
steve_rolfeca said:
Alesis has a new line of cymbal triggers. Regular cymbals with a plastic undercoat that kills the acoustic output, and sensors added for the trigger and choke functions.

If you're happy with the other treatments you've applied to the kit, and it's only the cymbals that are a problem, they might be just the ticket.
Click to expand...


THIS!! I had no idea that something like this was available. Thank you for the help :bassist:
 
#12
amosjones said:
Our Drummer uses Hotrods. The look like a bunch of long match sticks taped together
Click to expand...

This, although I'd recommend the Vater Whips. They are nylon hotrods. more expensive but last much longer.

From the sounds of it, TS, your drummer just needs to adjust his playing style and learn to play quieter. If he tilts his cymbals a bit more, he'll hit them with the tip more than the stick, which will make them considerably quieter. He'll probably break sticks a bit more often at first until he can control his attack a bit better.
 
#17
Hotrods work to some extent, but the real key -- as someone else said -- is to learn to play with finesse. Smaller drums and cymbals also work. And so does turning the amps down. Before the advent of huge amps and PAs, small guitar and bass amps and small drum kits were the rule. They worked.

Electronic drums are fine, but any drummer will tell you the feel isn't the same, even on the sets that use plastic heads. The rubber pads, I'm told by drummers who know, don't give a true bounce and actually hurt your wrists.

I play in a church band with one older drummer who is classically trained and two younger drummers who aren't. When the older guy plays, we sound better -- mainly because he isn't pounding the snot out of his drums and cymbals. As a result, everyone else turns down, plays with a lighter touch and lets the PA do the work. Which is as it should be.

I like loud, but I like quality better. I've played in overly loud bands and in bands with a total wattage of 300, including the PA. I'll take softer every time.
 
#18
JimmyM said:
get quieter cymbals or get the drummer not to bang so hard. it's kind of a bummer to hear a drummer not bang hard in certain types of music, but it doesn't sound like you're one of those bands if you're using v-drums currently.

btw, i'm with you...i hate the look of v-drums on a gig. maybe if i was in a kraftwerk tribute band i'd like them, but not otherwise ;)
Click to expand...

+1

It don´t have a clue of which kinds of cymbals that sounds soft, but thinner cymbals crash easier and don´t sound as loud as thicker cymbals when crashing them. I really don´t understand why some drummers hit as hard as they can on their drums. Are they stupid? A rimshot is loud, I understand that, but why hit harder than it needs to produce the sound of a rimshot?
 
#19
It would be easy to turn this thread into a drummer hate fest, or a dozens of pot shots at loud drummers, so let me try to quench that...

There are lots of reasons drummers hit hard. Some do it because they are deaf, some just don't have control, some are actually just obnoxious for no reason other then they are that stereotype arrogant drummer. Most do it because they say the drum or the cymbal sounds better, fuller, etc. And they are right. Sort of similar to brushing against your strings, sure it might make a sound, but to get a rich, full tone with all the harmonics you need to pluck that sucker good.

But the truth, (which many drummers don't ever figure out, or refuse to) is that there are more efficient ways to get that full, rich tone from a drum without hitting as hard as possible. Tune the drums right for one. If both heads are tuned to the resonant frequency of the shell, you'll get what you're looking for. Hit it in the right spot, and always the same spot. Then there is a matter of stick angle, as well as the stroke itself. This is critical especially with cymbals. There is a right way and many wrong ways to hit a cymbal with a stick. The right way will make it sound good no matter what volume.

Again, it's tough to find drummers who go the extra mile. And God knows they won't take advice from non-drummers, even though you are now educated.
 
#20
A drummer that smashes the piss out of the cymbals is a crappy drummer. Get him to work on technique and lighten up on the cymbals some. It will make is kit overall sound bigger/fuller in the mix as there will be less cymbal bleed coming through the tom mics allowing those mics to be boosted more.

Seriously, either the drummer learns dynamics or replace him.
 

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