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Drummer audition- very challenging decision to make

djero44

djero44

Mar 3, 2009
484
118
Hotchkiss, Colorado
#1
I've been working with a very talented singer and songwriter the last few months, logging a lot of time helping him get some material arranged and working towards our first gig which is in a month. It has become an amazing project, we have great chemistry and complimentary strengths, as well as similar musical tastes. I'm very excited about the whole thing. I have been focusing on playing drums for this band, for a couple of reasons, and have very nearly finished producing a demo for us which is very promising.

The other night I got together with a young drummer friend of mine I have gigged with quite a bit. I played him our (at that time unmixed and unfinished) demo and he was very interested in playing with us, so he came over last night and we gave it a go. The session went alright, he learned our songs well with only one day of prep, and has a ton of energy. On the other hand his playing volume is out of hand (especially for our small rehearsal space) and his drive was overwhelming, though fun for a couple of our tunes. I literally had a headache from the first twenty minutes of practice from the intensity and volume of it all, and this is with earplugs in! Mind you, i've played and performed quite a bit with this guy but not for awhile, and though i'm familiar with his frantic pulse, but it does not usually affect me like that. I'm totally on the fence about this one, and really need to figure out what to do.

Here's the situation: Pros- This drummer very talented musician, with strengths from jazz and latin jazz to fusion and rock. He is also a very dedicated musician, playing many hours a day, and an experienced performer with many gigs under his belt, and one of the only musicians in our area (that is not tied to a project) with similar long term goals as us, i.e. gigging a lot and pursuing regional potential and beyond. There is no doubt he is moving on to a professional music career. To be honest in many ways he is the fastest learning musician i've ever worked with, and he has great input on arrangements and an incredible memory. He's a good person, too. Also it gives me a chance to focus on bass, which is my favorite instrument, and I am a better singer with bass than drums which is pretty important. We are establishing a lot more harmonies and second vocal parts. Taking him on as our drummer will move this band forward faster than any other avenue I see before us at this point.

Cons- He has a very hard time tempering his frenetic energy, which can be and was too intense in the audition. It felt like we were trying to keep up with him. Also stylistically there is a crossover with our tastes, but we are going to have to sacrifice the irie, laid back groove element of our band a lot if we continue to work with him, which is not desirable. We love to rock out, but also reign it in with some more down-tempo vibes. This guy is not going to get that any time soon, he is only seventeen, still lives at home and is very straight edged, which is not a bad thing but leaves him somewhat inexperienced in certain areas of life. Some types of learning for certain personalities tend to come with time and maturity. He will get it someday, and has made a lot of progress since we last played together, but i'm still very split about the whole thing. I want to look towards the long run but not miss out in the here and now.

I'm going to take this as an opportunity for clear communication and just lay it out for him before the next practice. I feel we should give it one more shot and i'm going to pretty much say down what i've mentioned here (most of which I did tell him during and after our practice last night. It's just my head was pounding and I didn't have time to really think it through in the moment). I know he won't be able to do what I did as a drummer for this band, but he has technical skills and experience that far exceed mine, plus a lot of other strengths too.

This is a very difficult choice to make. Sorry for the long post, maybe someone here has some good advice for me.
 
#2
I think the Pros outweigh the Cons here.
Perhaps his playing was a bit on the intense side because of nerves or adrenaline at the audition. Guys like this dont drop into your lap too often.
Just let him know you love his playing, but needs to tame the beast a tad.
 
#4
I say give the kid a shot, he certainly sounds keen, try and channel his energy and drive down the path that the band needs. At the end of the day if it doesn't work... Then it Doesn't work, but their is only one way to find out!
 
#5
This drummer sounds exactly like a guy I played a one-off gig with a few years ago. He was still in high school at the time and they needed a fill-in bassist for a high-profile gig so I got the call despite literally being old enough to be the drummer's (and other two band members') dad.

The rehearsals went great and the kid floored me with his chops, tone and "feel" at such a young age (think Carter Beauford). Then came gig day... an outdoor festival. There was a run-in with the stage manager, he wasn't allowed to use his own kit, it was brutally hot, and when it came down to go time the kid kind of lost it, meter wise. Overplayed, pushed most of the tempos way too fast... kind of a downer gig for me and I felt bad for the kid cause I knew it was a huge opportunity for them and he was a much better drummer than he had showed.

Well last year I saw that same guy playing again and... wow. Still all the chops, tone and feel but now he is a friggen metronome as far as time.

All of which is to say... sounds to me like you have a stud drummer in the making here. He has things you can't teach, an unusually wide repertoire for someone his age, he's dedicated to making himself better and it sounds like he's well-grounded personally. I'd hang on to him and try to bring him along... even if it means a temporary regression in the quality of the band and/or a slight recalibration of the band's musical identity. The issues that are bugging you about him are really those of immaturity -- physically, emotionally and musically. My gut tells me if you give this kid a year or two of mentoring, you could have something pretty special on your hands.

Also keep in mind, as a bassist who also drums, you may be applying an unusually high standard. And I say that as a non-drumming bassist who is nevertheless extremely picky about drummers.
 
#7
If he is a good person and you enjoy hanging with him, play together as much as you can! It does not stop you from performing in other contexts where his style may not be appropriate.
 
#8
jaywa said:
All of which is to say... sounds to me like you have a stud drummer in the making here. He has things you can't teach, an unusually wide repertoire for someone his age, he's dedicated to making himself better and it sounds like he's well-grounded personally. I'd hang on to him and try to bring him along... even if it means a temporary regression in the quality of the band and/or a slight recalibration of the band's musical identity. The issues that are bugging you about him are really those of immaturity -- physically, emotionally and musically. My gut tells me if you give this kid a year or two of mentoring, you could have something pretty special on your hands.

Also keep in mind, as a bassist who also drums, you may be applying an unusually high standard. And I say that as a non-drumming bassist who is nevertheless extremely picky about drummers.
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Well, you are right about his potential, and that too equates to our potential working with him. One thing I did not mention earlier is that he is also a very cocky young guy, the kind of person who likes to say how good he is. I've even heard him call himself a prodigy. Honestly he's as close to that as anyone i've ever known, and for all his ego I don't have a problem with that and haven't felt like trying to knock him down like most the older musicians in town. Rather, as I mentioned, I feel a kinship with him and have somewhat of a mentor for him over the years.

Thanks for your advice, you are probably right, and it is encouraging for me. Part of the equation was my random headache, which was only aggravated by the music and actually stemmed from my hardcore yoga class yesterday morning. It made everything extra uncomfortable for me. I've spent maybe a couple hundred hours playing with this drummer over the past few years and he isn't usually so hard for me to handle. Meanwhile I do think he will learn to respect the spaces in the music, he has certainly improved in the past eight months or so.
 
#10
Do you have any examples of the more laid back style of drumming you'd like to incorporate? Since he's a fast learner, give him some stuff to listen to. At 17, he may not have been exposed much to some styles, but could get there pretty quick with a good listening regimine.
 
#11
tangentmusic said:
I think the Pros outweigh the Cons here.
Perhaps his playing was a bit on the intense side because of nerves or adrenaline at the audition. Guys like this dont drop into your lap too often.
Just let him know you love his playing, but needs to tame the beast a tad.
Click to expand...

I think he was extra nervous last night, actually. I need to remember he does feel them even if he is so self-assured in persona.

Believe me, I did and have mention taming the beast, maybe in very similar words even. I didn't hesitate to let him know it was my fear about the situation, and spoke to him about it numerous times last night during practice, with limited success. He definitely tried, but the fact is even when he is holding it back he is a very loud drummer. One that says that is just 'how he plays'. We all know the type. I personally recognize that he doesn't have the capacity yet to tame his wild energy; it's going to take some serious work. I also have no doubt he will accomplish this to a significant degree, because he will need to in order to become the musician he wants to be, but this will likely be a number of years to any kind of plateau. At least that's my opinion from knowing him since he was a little kid and watching him play for six or so now.

Another thing I have realized is a factor in the equation is that i'm used to playing in a band with him where he was the band leader. He is for the most part a very good band leader too, especially for his age. But this project will be a different situation, and one that will take a bit of effort to develop, especially since the other two of us are very mellow personalities comparatively. That role will fall largely to me because I am more assertive than the songwriter and have more of a rapport with the drummer, but it is not a great strength for me. It is one i'm cultivating, though, so I will look at that as another opportunity for personal growth. I am very engaged with this project so don't have any problems sharing my feelings about it.

I'll keep you guys posted.
 
#12
Rebecca said:
Do you have any examples of the more laid back style of drumming you'd like to incorporate? Since he's a fast learner, give him some stuff to listen to. At 17, he may not have been exposed much to some styles, but could get there pretty quick with a good listening regimine.
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Well the biggest thing is we have kind of a reggae backbeat in our music, although we don't play reggae per se. More like reggae influenced, and usually on the uptempo side (not quite ska, but bouncin') which he sits fine with, but occasionally we drop it into a deeper pocket that is simply something he can't do. He can't even really hold a true deep pocket slow groove in any style to my true liking, because he is way to hyper-kinetic. We get into the hip-hop sound a bit too, because our singer is a wicked freestyler and has that kind of jive. But this stuff just isn't the same when it's pushed too hard.

This is the element I see will have to be shelved if we take him on. It's not a deal breaker, but it change the nature and dynamics of the project significantly. We just have to decide how much we are attached to that part of our sound.


I am being pretty picky at this point, but the reason is because this project is poised to burst and I want it to reach it's potential. But we live in a rural area and don't have a ton of musicians to draw from, so moving forward is a good thing, and if it doesn't work out in the mid to long run, at least we're playing out and getting our set together more quickly.
 
#13
djero44 said:
I have been focusing on playing drums for this band....

Some types of learning for certain personalities tend to come with time and maturity.

I know he won't be able to do what I did as a drummer for this band,....

...occasionally we drop it into a deeper pocket that is simply something he can't do.

He can't even really hold a true deep pocket slow groove in any style to my true liking, because he is way to hyper-kinetic.
Click to expand...
Since verbally describing your musical tastes to the drummer doesn't seem to be working out, I suggest you let him learn the drum parts from the recordings you've made. Maybe he can play them back at a different speed so hear can hear what's really going on.

And since you can play the drums exactly the way you want them played, I'm really wondering why you don't sit down with him before rehearsal and teach him what he doesn't know instead of talking about it?

Suggestions for teaching: play everything as slow as possible until he gets the beats. Then increase tempo with you modeling what you need until he's up to speed. Make some recordings of both of you playing together. Let him listen. Then with him playing solo, coach him until it's right. For all of this, always focus on what he gets right, DO NOT focus on what he does wrong. Just have him stop and keep saying: Do it this way....with you demonstrating the correct beats. Then make some recordings of him playing your tunes so he can compare them to the recording you've made.

Do this a few times until he's right on. Based on the talents you say he has, I think he'll be up to speed in a lot less time than you think.
 
#15
I'm gonna go against the grain and advise you to look elsewhere. Versatility is the key to being a good professional drummer (musician), if anyone who I hire for my projects pulls the "that's just how I play" line, when I attempt to give feedback/instruction, they are very quickly asked to leave. The fact is, you probably don't need a "prodigy" for your project, you just need someone who can keep solid time and make it interesting. Also the cockiness that you mentioned is almost guaranteed to prevent him from realizing his errors and correcting them, no matter how many times you ask. I suggest you find someone who doesn't need his hand held to develop into a responsible, listening drummer. This is just how I would handle it based on the info you have given.
 
#17
What you describe is a guy who isn't quite feeling the style. IMHO good drummers can absolutely control their volume and intensity- and do so in response to the music. Sensibility to dynamics is the pass/fail between drummers and guys who hit things

You say hes your best option, and he's a fast learner : see how fast he can learn some control, and learn to feel the style you are playing. Tell him you like his playing, but are unsure about his feel for the genre, that hes on a "probationary membership," and that he has a few months to turn it down, and really get behind the feel of the music and then we'll see. Make these expectations clear and see if he steps up.
 
#19
mambo4 said:
What you describe is a guy who isn't quite feeling the style. IMHO good drummers can absolutely control their volume and intensity- and do so in response to the music. Sensibility to dynamics is the pass/fail between drummers and guys who hit things

You say hes your best option, and he's a fast learner : see how fast he can learn some control, and learn to feel the style you are playing. Tell him you like his playing, but are unsure about his feel for the genre, that hes on a "probationary membership," and that he has a few months to turn it down, and really get behind the feel of the music and then we'll see. Make these expectations clear and see if he steps up.
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+1
 
#20
Stumbo said:
And since you can play the drums exactly the way you want them played, I'm really wondering why you don't sit down with him before rehearsal and teach him what he doesn't know instead of talking about it?
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Well, it isn't his ability to play the stuff that is an issue. It's the ability to feel it. Especially the held-back grooves. Technically this guy can play circles around me. He spent a couple of years freaking out on left foot clave until he could play Horacio El Negro's stuff really well, now he's on to playing a lot of Ronald Bruner. These are some really busy drummers!

Trying to explain to someone how to feel the groove is not something i'm really that good at, but i'm giving it my best.

Also with the direction things are taking, by working with this guy, our sound is going to change a bit. Though he doesn't necessarily get everything I would really like, he does bring a lot of stuff to the table that I personally could not, and some of it is quite awesome.
 

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