If you have the stands, I'd just use one sub in that room. Not sure center placement will matter there.
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Dual subwoofers placement, in real life
- Thread starter jallejulius
- Start date
That's a platitude rather than a fact.
I personally am a big fan of center packing the subs, but it wasn't practical in most of situations where I ran sound, so they were usually placed L/R. It wasn't practical because there was literally no place to put them because the front row of the audience was typically sitting right on the lip of the stage.
I find it interesting that you reference Rat Sound. I have watched quite a few of Dave's videos and I get the impression that he evaluates the situation and comes up with a solution rather than taking a dogmatic approach.
FYI here's a L/R subwoofer setup from Ratsounds webpage
Actual photo from Rat Sound with no center pack
Unfortunately a lot of what Dave Rat discusses really doesn't scale down to little bitty rooms because his specialty is large directional arrays.
Maybe clustering the subs will be best, maybe it's not. Maybe one sub is enough. IMHO, the best way to find out is to experiment. If you read Dave Rats articles, you will get the impression that he has done lot's of experimenting.
"That's a platitude rather than a fact. "
So, provide evidence please... I see none at present. No disrespect, just a totally different view, and that is ok, wasnex...
BTW - I am well familiar with the works of Dave Rat, and I have received numerous compliments on how my band sounded better than all the rest. I must be doing something wrong by accident maybe.
So, provide evidence please... I see none at present. No disrespect, just a totally different view, and that is ok, wasnex...
BTW - I am well familiar with the works of Dave Rat, and I have received numerous compliments on how my band sounded better than all the rest. I must be doing something wrong by accident maybe.
You're the one who made a statement that needs to be backed up. There are plenty of threads that theorize on why the music industry is in decline. Search them out for yourself.
I didn't say anything bad about center packing subs. It's actually a very useful technique that I frequently use myself, but it's not appropriate for all situations, and it also has some inherent problems. I am sure Dave Rat has a video explaining some of the problems somewhere.
That works.just stack on the most crowd exposed side and tripod on the more protected side...
The other thing you can do to mitigate power alley with L&R places subs is to turn one sub down 3 db.
huh.
that necessarily makes for less low end overall, right? what's the tradeoff, does it mean the low end "valleys" end up having more low end than otherwise, at the expense of the low end "peaks" not being as strong? is it all that different from just using one sub?
More or less defeats the power alley as the strong side kinda carries things. Yes less overall output but unless we are at the output limit of the strong side, not a realistic issue.
At least one person in this thread will vomit but... light travels faster than sound. Maintaining a traditional symmetrical look is actually very important with some clients... Some won't care I also prefer having my tops on pole over subs if there is any crowd. A sizable drunk
can take out a tripod faster than a sub. I recently had one trip over a monitor while dancing. No stage... he took out a mic stand. Completely. Round base stand. Snapped the shaft off at the base. He was pretty sheepish. Thankfully as I don't need a belligerent drunk with a mic stand shaft as a weapon...
At least one person in this thread will vomit but... light travels faster than sound. Maintaining a traditional symmetrical look is actually very important with some clients... Some won't care I also prefer having my tops on pole over subs if there is any crowd. A sizable drunk
can take out a tripod faster than a sub. I recently had one trip over a monitor while dancing. No stage... he took out a mic stand. Completely. Round base stand. Snapped the shaft off at the base. He was pretty sheepish. Thankfully as I don't need a belligerent drunk with a mic stand shaft as a weapon...
s0c9
Supporting Member
I'm doing an SR gig tonight... decent-sized triangular (in the corner) stage. No room to center cluster QSC subs as they will block the 6ft deep dance floor ( 
), so they'll go L/R under the tops.
I'll adjust for the room, so I don't blow out the punters at the tables 4 feet in front of the stack, but still loud enough to carry the room.
), so they'll go L/R under the tops.I'll adjust for the room, so I don't blow out the punters at the tables 4 feet in front of the stack, but still loud enough to carry the room.
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Combat audio... it's what's for dinner ;-)
I have a turbosound set up, generally mains on poles over subs, I like the poles, they take less space than stands, as well I changed out the poles on my turbosound for the socket regular type for K&M screw in type which I fond much more stable, I generally bring one stand just in case. I find this set up sounds very good to me. All theory aside It is good to try new things but let your ears be the judge.
I have done center subs a few times in small rooms and that was fine too but it's also longer cable runs which for a small band should be a consideration. I have my set up now where I can use all 15' or less cables as I have 2 8 channel snakes with 4 returns, my tear down time is 25% faster than a year ago..
I have done center subs a few times in small rooms and that was fine too but it's also longer cable runs which for a small band should be a consideration. I have my set up now where I can use all 15' or less cables as I have 2 8 channel snakes with 4 returns, my tear down time is 25% faster than a year ago..
s0c9
Supporting Member
Seeing that pic reminded me of mixing on this system about a year ago.. First time I has seen subs hung directly BEHIND the HF stack. Worked great tho.
I posted about mixing on this console back then too.. It was a blast!!
Setting up a band PA like a PRO! ^^
One question remains!
Is it better to put the subs on the same line/angel as the tops or is it better to have them closer to the wall, just like we have now? Thank you
One question remains!
Is it better to put the subs on the same line/angel as the tops or is it better to have them closer to the wall, just like we have now? Thank you
Setting up a band PA like a PRO! ^^
One question remains!
Is it better to put the subs on the same line/angel as the tops or is it better to have them closer to the wall, just like we have now? Thank you
Pick your trade offs. You get a bit of extra low end from tight packing the subs and pushing them against the wall. The phase response with the left speaker at the crossover region will be better, and the phase response with the right speaker will be worse. It's a tight setup, and you clear the center of obstructions (versus center packing).
IMHO you have chose the correct compromise, but YMMV.
I believe dispersion for these two subs tight packed will still be almost omni-directional, especially when you consider the reflection from the floor and wall. There may be some extra phase error from having the effective center of the bass array slightly deeper in the setup. So if you mixer has the capability to delay the outputs, you might delay the high packs slightly. I doubt you will notice any difference.
Course if you are running the subs and high packs inline of the stereo out, this is not possible. You would need to run LR mains and the subs off an aux to apply separate delay to the high packs.
The problem here is you cant see the bass player.Setting up a band PA like a PRO! ^^
One question remains!
Is it better to put the subs on the same line/angel as the tops or is it better to have them closer to the wall, just like we have now? Thank you
For that room one sub will easily do it.
We play a regular 250 seater and I use one sub and two top boxes. I've tried with two subs, one either side and I took a walk around the room, sounded fairly even, the level drops off as you go to the back but walking across the room side to side I didn't get a sense that anything was missing. The room is not very wide though and that probably helps.
We play a regular 250 seater and I use one sub and two top boxes. I've tried with two subs, one either side and I took a walk around the room, sounded fairly even, the level drops off as you go to the back but walking across the room side to side I didn't get a sense that anything was missing. The room is not very wide though and that probably helps.
Probably, but we all go direct to the board, we even use e-drums so the two subs worked out flawlessly, and like you said, one would probably be just fine.
We ended up stacking the subs in order to get more space, and it worked out very well!
For a venue like that, our PA worked out perfectly
The two Alto TS315's are load as F### ! Plenty of headroom left for a venue like that.
Hello folks!
This upcoming weekend, we will have another gig!
This time, we will perform on a stage which is 6x3 meters and about 0,4 meters up in the air.
Something like this:
Invalid Link Removed
So where do we put our speakers and the two subs?
Should the tops be on the stage or on the floor?
Should the subs be on the stage or on one side? I would rather not put them in front of the stage... Or shall we place one under each top?
Btw this will be a corporate gig, so no more than 50-60 guests, so the volume wont be super loud. And bringing two subs isnt necessary, so that's why I'm asking you guys for advice
Thank you
This upcoming weekend, we will have another gig!
This time, we will perform on a stage which is 6x3 meters and about 0,4 meters up in the air.
Something like this:
Invalid Link Removed
So where do we put our speakers and the two subs?
Should the tops be on the stage or on the floor?
Should the subs be on the stage or on one side? I would rather not put them in front of the stage... Or shall we place one under each top?
Btw this will be a corporate gig, so no more than 50-60 guests, so the volume wont be super loud. And bringing two subs isnt necessary, so that's why I'm asking you guys for advice
Thank you
