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Dueling loyalties

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by two fingers, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    So, my "perfect" band isn't so perfect.

    I brought a singer/keys player into a brand new band. I've been wanting to work with this guy forever. We have done fill-in stuff together but were never able to be in a band together. We have mutual respect for each other to say the least.

    We had a female singer, a great guitar player, a drummer with great chops who also sings and me (bass and vocals).

    The guitar player is not only a friend, but he lives in my neighborhood and our kids play together.

    The last peice of the puzzle was the singer who plays keys.

    To make a long story short, the female singer was threatened by the keys/singer and went on a witch hunt. She doesn't want him in the band. She "found a guy" (won't tell us who he is) who "worked with him in the past and says he isn't a team player".

    The guitar player frankly doesn't care what happens to the keys guy. He just wants a band to form with or without him. He and the female singer already do duo gigs together so he's not going against her. Period. He feels bad about it though.

    So, it's complicated. The female singer is a client of my wife's business. The guitar player lives in my neighborhood and our kids are friends. And the keys player is a great guy (ridiculously talented) who was brought in by me to fill the gaps in this band.

    I know what's right. In fact, I already know what I'm going to do. (Either he stays or I go.)

    I'm just venting. This band had huge potential.

    (For those of you keeping score at home, yes, this is a direct result of the Chris Stapleton derangement thread situation.)

    I have every reason to beleive that she'll try to make me out as the bad guy here. She doesn't realize I have been in this music scene for 32 years and have made exactly zero enemies. She'll learn the hard way, unfortunately.

    Keys guy and I will put together another band that will probably be pretty good. But it won't match the potential this project had (talent pool is kind of shallow in this mostly rural part of the state). I'm not going to try and poach other members from this project until several months pass and they get nowhere. Doing it immediately would he classless.

    The moral lesson here....

    If you have a huge fragile ego, do the rest of us a favor and shove it up your rectum. Thank you very much. :thumbsup:

    Update in post #78!!!!
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  2. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    Band meeting time.
    Flippy and Aqualung60 like this.
  3. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Yeah. That's tomorrow afternoon. It won't end well. I'll be as diplomatic as possible. But, according to the guitar player, she's dug in her heels and seriously doesn't want the guy in the band.
  4. AlexBassMP


    Feb 5, 2014
    Fire the female singer.. :D For sure she doesn't expect that.

    Seriously talking now :

    I think that her reaction towards the "new guy" is normal until a certain pont. I was reluctant towards our new drummer... (long history which I won't tell here) but after a while I accepted him

    IMO the situation in her mind is :

    "This guy sings better than me so I won't be the center of attention anymore" or in the worse case "these guys want to replace me so I will talk s**t or make drama to make them fire this guy"

    It's up to her how to deal his her insecurities... (we all have insecurities in one or several areas in our lifes).. but maybe the band could make her see that there's no threat at all..
  5. Because I’ve learned never to assume here; you mean she felt threatened by him? Or do they have some kind of prior knowledge of each other and he has threatened her in some kind of confrontation? Surely it’s not solely based on the word of a third party. If nothing else she needs to give specific examples that the guy can respond to if she’s going to accuse him.

    The tough spot is that she’s a client of your wife. Outside of that, I’d expect her to at least give him a chance. No one on this planet is irreplaceable, so maybe she just needs being brought down a notch if this is solely about her insecurities.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  6. Spidey2112


    Aug 3, 2016
    This isn't the Fleetwood Mac tribute band you were thinking about doing, is it @two fingers?
  7. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    When you say the lady in the band “was threatened” do you mean felt threatened, or did the keyboard guy actually say or do something a reasonable person would interpret as threatening behavior?

    If he did do something - even jokingly - it’s a lost cause. In the current social climate she’s already won. It’s not acceptable behavior. In which case he leaves and you leave and…good luck with your next new band.

    If she’s just getting all jealous and insecure you have a deeper problem. Because a fragile lilly is a time bomb. If your band weathers this crisis, another crisis will come along another day.

    I think it’s probably more the second case. Especially in the wake of her refusing to name the source of her claim that the keys guy isn’t a team player. That’s pretty low to smear somebody and not provide any corroborating evidence to support it.

    If she’s that kind of person, good luck. You’ve got a snake in your midst. And it’s usually just a matter of time before the snake decides somebody else just stepped on its tail.

    Been there. So I know how that goes.

    Good luck.
    Mili, DanAleks, Pbassmanca and 3 others like this.
  8. EdwardofHuncote

    EdwardofHuncote I Still Dream of Jeannie Supporting Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Southwest Virginia
    Sounds like it certainly has the dysfunctional potential. :rolleyes:

    Dang, two fingers... you're having a time keeping something good together lately. Hope it works out man.
  9. hrodbert696

    hrodbert696 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Well, if people are at all capable of being reasonable:

    Say to keys player at band meeting; "It's really important to us that everyone be a team player. Are you OK with that? It will mean X, Y, and Z."

    Say to female singer at band meeting: "Keys player says he gets X Y and Z and he's on board with it. I haven't seen any sign of him not being a team player so far. If he actually does anything that's a problem for the band, let's deal with it then. I think we have a great thing going here, let's not shoot ourselves in the foot prematurely."
    stylonpilson, Ekulati, Cheez and 12 others like this.
  10. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    She feels threatened by his singing ability... not physically threatened. He sings every bit as good as her, if not better. (They're both really good.)
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  11. Ugh! Egos.
    This really sucks for you, but the female singer is being a reall A-Hat.
    With all of the potential this band has, it will never be realized under these circumstances, IMHO.
    Get with the keys player and see if he’s interested in the two of you working together on a different project.
    If so, both if you announce your intention to start a new group.

    You don’t have to use the Q word, but you can explain that you probably won’t have much time to devote to the current band. Tell the others that you’ll work with them until they find a replacement, especially if any gigs are already scheduled.

    Maybe at that point everyone will decide it’s best to just not continue this project. Perhaps the guitar will join the two if you. Of course singer girl won’t even bother, but it’s her choice. If it works out, you have effectively fire the singer, without her feeling fired.

    I would imagine with the talent of the two if you and any others that follow, it shouldn’t be that hard to find another singer, even if you really need one.

    Win win win, problem solved.

    I’ve been in the wanted to get out of a band situation and you can’t avoid hard feelings, just hopefully minimize them.
    Good luck
    two fingers, Deak and Groove Doctor like this.
  12. Droopy_TX


    Jul 17, 2016
    Sounds like symptoms of an insecure control freak. This will manifest itself in every aspect of the band. Yep, nip it in the bud, or leave.

    On a positive note, though, if it is a Fleetwood Mac tribute band, you've already got that Stevie vs. Lindsey dynamic going. ;)
  13. gln1955

    gln1955 Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Ohio, USA
    Call her out on this "not a team player" stuff. Specifics or shut the hell up.

    If she's threatened by his singing, I assume she thinks he'll grab too many leads. Y'all should map what the singing duties of each are going to be. If she doesn't get on board, it'll be pretty obvious who's not the team player.
    Mili, Ekulati, Session1969 and 6 others like this.
  14. Was there any kind of discussion about bringing in the new keys/singer? Did it receive the acceptance or approval of all members beforehand?

    It kind of sounds like you brought him in without getting a good feel for what the others think.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    instrumentalist and two fingers like this.
  15. perhaps pair off with keyboard player and start 2nd group, preserve all ancillary relationships. Everyone wins. To be fair, perhaps you are trying to send your existing group into a direction it does not want to go. First and foremost, breathe. :)
  16. craigie


    Nov 11, 2015
    There must have been a reason the dead kept Donna godchaux around too. Certainly not the vocals....
    When a TB member posted their dead cover band sound clips and the female backing vocal was off pitch I thought “wow! They are really authentic.”

    One would think that if talent were lacking this vocalist would go out of her way to be drama free, because that’s what would actually keep her in th band, but human nature isn’t like that.
    redwingxix, Ekulati and two fingers like this.
  17. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    I assume your goal is not to replace the female singer. Without knowing whether the others had input in bringing in the keyboardist, it's tough to get a read on them. Why not sit down with the female singer over coffee and explain that she is not being pushed out - that with two lead singers, plus keys, you will be able to do tunes no other band can do (pick some specific examples you have in mind). No matter HOW it shakes out, if the band folds you will have big issues in your life.
    two fingers likes this.
  18. Seanto


    Dec 29, 2005
    Sounds like the female singer just doesn't want any other singers in the band. I bet if your keys player just stuck to keys, this drama would not have unfolded. Not saying the female singer is right, just analyzing the likely cause. I do think having two good singers in a band is an asset and leads can be shared, but apparently your lead doesn't agree.

    Can this be salvaged by the keys player not singing(or just backings) and just playing keys? I fully realize it sounds like that ship may have sailed, lol. When keys dude was brought on, did you all set a precedent that he would be singing some leads with her agreement?
    Groove Doctor likes this.
  19. Pro keyboardist explained it to me. "Chick vocalists are crazy ".
    Kevinlane, Coachkellyg, Mili and 9 others like this.
  20. Yep. Been there. :banghead:

    Ohh, snap! :roflmao:

    This. Have a plan for several outcomes.
    Pbassmanca and Stumbo like this.

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