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Dumb Guy.... Dumb Question

First of all, let me preface this posting with the fact that I'm a total tech moron! :confused: I've been playing the bass, on and off, for the last forty five years :bassist:. I've have a 1968 (VERY early, one of the first, Silverface models that I bought in January of that year) Fender Bassman since I bought it new that year. Presenly, I use a 1974 fretless P Bass, that I bought new. This combination has served me well and I'm in love with the warm tones I get from from them.

Recently, I was asked to play at a venue without my equipment. I was given a fairly new P Bass to play, that didn't like nearly as much as my own (but then again, it's a personal thing I guess) and I was plugged in to a 1968 Silverface Bandmaster with an AB 763 circuit (also a real early Silverface). To my surprise, it sounded almost exactly the same as my stuff. When I mentioned it to the owner, he said it's no big deal, the Bassman and Bandmaster are basically the same amp, with the notable exception of the "Deep" switch on the bass channel. He further said that they use the same speakers in both of them too. He told me he had a pair of Jensen C 12 N speakers in his cab that came stock with the rig.

Like I said, I'm a moron :o when it comes to tech stuff but I checked out the "Fender Amp Field Guide" on line and compared the two. The limited information that they provided matched up very closely. The stock speakers were identical and the tech stuff (with the exception of the "Deep" switch) looked pretty much the same too. BTW, I pulled the back of the cab and found a pair of C 12 N Jensens in my Bassman.

Did Fender just systematically load bass speakers in both amps? Or are the Bassman speakers not bass speakers at all? Are the amps virtually the same except for the "Deep/Bright" switches in the first channel (obviously, the tremelo in the second channel is a difference)?

Can anyone tell me the straight poop from a technical perspective?
 
I didn't think that the Bassman was a bass amp, but it had such a big box and created a nice low end for the times that people simply started to use it as a bass amp. If that is the case I wouldn't think the speakers are per se bass speakers.

However I'm sure I'm way off.
 
I've have a 1968 (VERY early, one of the first, Silverface models that I bought in January of that year) Fender Bassman since I bought it new that year. Presenly, I use a 1974 fretless P Bass, that I bought new. This combination has served me well and I'm in love with the warm tones I get from from them.

I was plugged in to a 1968 Silverface Bandmaster with an AB 763 circuit (also a real early Silverface). To my surprise, it sounded almost exactly the same as my stuff. When I mentioned it to the owner, he said it's no big deal, the Bassman and Bandmaster are basically the same amp, with the notable exception of the "Deep" switch on the bass channel. He further said that they use the same speakers in both of them too. He told me he had a pair of Jensen C 12 N speakers in his cab that came stock with the rig.

Did Fender just systematically load bass speakers in both amps? Or are the Bassman speakers not bass speakers at all? Are the amps virtually the same except for the "Deep/Bright" switches in the first channel (obviously, the tremelo in the second channel is a difference)?

Can anyone tell me the straight poop from a technical perspective?

Bill Fitzmaurice will probably chime in at some point, and he is technically well versed in the nuances of those amps and speakers.

The Bassman and Bandmaster were very similar designs. Speakers were much less diversified in that era and I don't recall if Fender used a heavier duty 12 for the bassman.

Somewhere in that time period, they did enlarge the cabinets to about a 4' height with the speakers alligned vertically instead of horizontally as in the smaller cabs (circa '64 or '65).

BTW, I had one of those fretless P Basses in '74.....NICE!
 
I didn't think that the Bassman was a bass amp, but it had such a big box and created a nice low end for the times that people simply started to use it as a bass amp. If that is the case I wouldn't think the speakers are per se bass speakers.

However I'm sure I'm way off.

You're way off. :) The first clue is the word "Bassman". The first Bassman amps were Fender's attempt to make an amp that would stand up to electric bass. The early Bassmans had open backed cabinets and were marginally better than a guitar amp for bass. Later they made a closed cabinet that was slightly better. The amplifiers themselves were pretty much the same except for a few eq differences.

Although they were pretty bad bass amps they did sound good to guitarists who used them and today the old 50 watt open back cabinet 4x10 model is still used by a lot of blues and rock guys.

I used one of those early 4x10 combos in the early 60s for bass. Nice sound at very low volume but totally useless with a band--and in those days the bands weren't loud at all.

Lately there has been a renewed interest in using the old Fender Bassmans as bass amps, mostly due to the retro fad and the romantic belief that anything old and particularly tube must be good. Most of the guys doing this weren't around during the time these amps were new and had no idea of how much we old, prehistoric bass players cursed the things and prayed for someone to design an amp that could be heard. I certainly don't miss the old days, since now I can carry in a lightweight GK head and a speaker cabinet to a gig and sound good and be heard. And there's even lighter and louder gear out these days.
 
Ok I'll take a swing at this.
The Tweed open backed 410 Bassman was the second Fender bass amp the first was a 115 Tweed open backed Bassman. Both were state of the art in 1954.

The Blackface and Silverface Bassman amps were very similar in tone circuits and identical in power amp specs. The speakers used by Fender in Bass amps were usually the same for bass and guitar and were guitar not bass speakers.

The winning combination in Fender Bass amps was always the higher powered Dual Showman along with the 2-15 JBL D140 equipped Dual Showman bottom. Or better yet the Dual Showman head with a Sunn 200S bottom .
 
I agree. I have a couple guitar playing friends that have spent big money on re-issue and vintage bassman amps and they do sound fantastic for guitar.

I'm not an expert on the history of bass amplification, but I'm willing to bet that the older ampegs came a bit later on than the early fender gears inception.

JKT
 
Wow. And here's me thinking my B15N actually sounds good. Why didn't someone tell me it was just a retro fad and romantic belief that it sounds good earlier? :eyebrow:

It does sound good to you. I'm not disputing that. They sound good to me too when played at a volume they produce their best sound at. I used one for a while when starting out. It was a nice sounding amp for quieter things, particularly playing big band standards and jazz trio and combo things. But it quickly ran out of headroom for anything louder, and carting that thing in and out of car trunks and up flights of stairs was a real chore. Back then there wasn't any particularly noteworthy about the amp except that the head stored inside the speaker cabinet. We thought that was a cool idea. It was more expensive than the Fender Bassman 2x12 closed back with the piggyback design, but the Fender could be heard a little better live although it didn't have nearly as much bottom.

Later I used the a B15 head to power a home brew 1x12 cabinet that I miced up for recording. That got me a great sound on tape. You didn't need much volume for recording. Then the first Polytone MiniBrute amp came out and I bought one and miced it up for recording. It sounded just as good. In fact, the sound on tape was quite similar and there wasn't a tube in it anywhere.

If you like the old B15 great. If I could find one cheap I'd pick one up and restore it, but it's certainly not on the top of my list of things to do before they ship me off to the nursing home.
 
OK... so let me see if I got this straight from the answers I've gotten to MY question. There's no difference between an early '68 Bandmaster and a Bassman except for the Tremelo in the second channel of the Bandmaster and the Deep switch in the first channel of the Bassman. Do I have this right? :confused:
 
Wow. And here's me thinking my B15N actually sounds good. Why didn't someone tell me it was just a retro fad and romantic belief that it sounds good earlier? :eyebrow:

I too own a B15N and it does sound good as did the twin 12" Fender Bassman I owned in the Sixties - at low volume! The Bassman lasted all of three gigs before it went back. It was unable to keep up with a drummer and a guitar player through an AC30. I too cursed the damn thing over and over through those three gigs. It looked great but was a lousy bass amp.

Paul