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Dumping IEMs

Bredian

Bredian

Apr 22, 2011
916
158
unlicensedtherapyband.com
#1
3 piece + singer .... we play 2-3x monthly... drummer also is a pro sound tech and has a trailer full of gear. We're about 18 months in. We still practice low volume, IEMs, drummer via electronic drum set, but these are for time keeping, starts/finishes, etc. Use a sound room every 3-4 months for a long full vol practice.

Anyway, gigs with IEMs were kind of loosing the "magic" of playing together. The mixing of overtones, the acoustic thump of sound waves, talking to peeps on the dance floor, talking to each other..... it certainly doesn't pay enough if you don't enjoy it.


Experiences?
 
#2
I haven't used IEMs yet and am going through the pros and cons now. Seems like they do create an electronic bubble ... having to use an ambient mike just to talk to each other. That's almost like conducting your life exclusively on the Internet instead of face-to-face interactions --> all "virtual." At a certain point it seems obscene to sock ourselves into an electronic closet just so the music sounds better "out there."

I have to come to a decision and may err on the side of tweaking monitor placement and volume in lieu of IEMs. Everything has trade offs so there is no correct answer here, just what you're willing to put up with.
 
#3
Ukiah Bass said:
I haven't used IEMs yet and am going through the pros and cons now. Seems like they do create an electronic bubble ... having to use an ambient mike just to talk to each other. That's almost like conducting your life exclusively on the Internet instead of face-to-face interactions --> all "virtual." At a certain point it seems obscene to sock ourselves into an electronic closet just so the music sounds better "out there."

I have to come to a decision and may err on the side of tweaking monitor placement and volume in lieu of IEMs. Everything has trade offs so there is no correct answer here, just what you're willing to put up with.
Click to expand...

I actually find it much easier to communicate with in-ears and ambient mics. I can easily get info to the whole band in the heat of battle, try that with a drummer who is going full tilt!

I play in two bands, only one of which uses in-ears (classic rock band w/ in-ears, blues band without), I'll take the in-ears over the noisy stage sound any day. (although I think for the in-ears to be effective, you really need to have everything going through the PA.)
 
#5
I like my IEMs and they were great for my cover gig - despite our small stages - because I could have things mixed my way and hear it crystal clear. Sure, you can do individual mixes with stage monitors, but the IEMs really give you more freedom with your mix IMO. I could crank the crap out of my vocals and not have to deal with feedback. I could dial up the vocalist and block out the guitar - what I got through stage volume alone with the headphones in was usually enough. Despite my protests, we never ran ambient mics so it definitely lost some of the "live" feel. I usually played with one earbud partially out to compensate.
 
#6
We use IEMs. They help control FOH volume by limiting stage volume. When the drummer is too loud for another band member, that person inevitably turns up their stage monitor. It doesn't take long at all before the stage monitors are bleeding over into the house and effecting the house mix. Also, IEMs help to protect your hearing by letting you listen at low to moderate volume and still hear clearly.

I guess it depends what you're going for, really. If you want to have a fun jam session where everybody is grooving on everybody else and it's one big party then IEMs might interfere with that since you might feel your in an "electronic bubble" as one person put it.

But if you're sole focus is on performing a professional quality show and you want the whole band to sound good FOH, then IEMs are usually very helpful IME. There are sacrifices you have to make in order to present things perfectly to the audience. You can't be the show and be the audience at the same time. Either you're a performer making entertainment for others, or you're a observer making entertainment for yourself. I'm not saying one is better than the other; they are just different. You have to ask yourself what it is that you are trying to do.

I don't hear the whole band in my IEMs when I play. I just heard what I need to hear to play MY part the best that I can. As a consequence, I miss the show. I don't get to see and feel the whole experience that the audience does. That's ok with me because IMO, that's not what I'm there for. In my mind, I'm there to provide a show to others not myself.

Personally, in my IEM, I have the drums (at a low level since I can feel them anyway), the lead vocal (and sometimes backing vocals at low volume), and the rhythm guitar. That's it for me. I play in an 8 piece (not including vocalists) so I end up missing most of the show but I'm locked in with the drummer and I don't miss the chord changes so I get my job done. I usually miss the saxophone solo, the lead guitar solo, the piano, the synth pads, the harmony vocals, etc. IMO, that's OK with me because I'm not there to enjoy the show; I'm there to perform the show.

There are pros and cons for IEM. I guess you just have to decide what you are trying to do.
 
#9
I think you have to hear the whole band when you play, otherwise, you're forcing the rest of the musicians to adjust to your dynamics, while you have little idea, unless you've learned the piece without IEMs.

Similar to the backing tracks discussion in another thread, the magic happens with interaction.

The problem seems to be stage volume, and yes, with my prior band having a couple of Twin Reverbs competing for sonic space, IEMs would have been optimal, but my 3 instrument band the guitarist uses a smaller wattage Marshall and can get his effects below ear splitting levels.

Playing in 80+ piece concert bands and/or 18 piece jazz bands, stacked or spread, you have to be able to hear any individual instrument as there is no guarantee who will carry the piece at any one time and there isn't a click track.
 
#10
I don't think it's the IEM that are the problem, I think it's the sound isolation.

We just started using IEMs and the first set I was given by the band leader didn't have nearly enough bass so I used a pair of $40 Sony ear buds that I already had because they had great bass. But they weren't sound isolating. I liked it a lot that way.
Then we got better IEMs and I didn't like them until I used the tips with the least isolation, I might even try poking little holes in the tips to get even less isolation.
Bose has buds that use little rubber clips to stay in your ears, I'm seriously considering getting those because they might be the best of both worlds, great IEM sound and no "bubble".
 
#11
I've started using them to protect my ears more than keeping stage volume down for the audience. I sing a lot and with earplugs it is difficult to hear what you are singing. I had my first gig with the Rolls PM351 added to my Shure system and it was great to mix in what I wanted. Once the sound person got the mix of guitars, other singers and drums mixed in I could add all the bass and my vocals I wanted. I think I finally have an IEM system I love.
 
#12
Keep practicing with the IEM's
A silent gig will eventually come your way.
One big advantage is outdoor gigs with good sound, and playing past curfew because the music is silent. Several bands playing at the same time.
It means more opportunities to play. Give the audience a choice.
Those that master the silence will win the battle.
 
#13
Not sure why anyone would pick and choose what to put in their IEMs, and then complain about being in a "bubble".

You can't play together if you can't hear each other. Everything goes into the IEMs, and the "bubble" you are in is called a "band".

No longer do you have to guess what that guy on the other side of the stage is playing, you can hear him.

Been using IEMs for a little over a year, never been happier playing. I can hear everything clearer, my ears aren't ringing after gigs anymore.

when the band's playing, even without IEMs in, I generally can't hear what people are saying anyway, too loud.

I can wiggle my ears, so in between songs, I can usually break the seal to hear people talking on stage without pulling them out, so maybe that's unusual.

Randy
 
#16
I'm another recent convert. Two weeks ago I did an outdoor church service without them and the onstage levels were miserable. Though out front I was told It sounded great. I'm now planning for the next time. I'm going to show up with my own mic split and mixer and regardless of what the sound company provides be prepared to have a 4 to 8 input mix of my own. My ears are already too damaged at 43 to subject myself to guitar players pushing things over the top... And drummers to a lesser extent.

I'm using 1964 Ears Quads and experimenting with a few headphone specific amps.

I fully intend for my bass amp to get dusty.
 
#17
IEM's definitely take some getting used to, but once you get over the initial shock, they are invaluable. Personally, I run IEM's plus an amp, so I get the articulation of my playing in my ears, and the meat from the amp. Combine them, and it is awesome. I have gone with IEM's only, and it is doable, but I do miss the feeling of an amp pushing air behind me, so I don't prefer it. Communication during a show becomes more a matter of signalling and reading lips, but as others have said, you can set up a mic to get around that. Still working that out myself. The biggest advantage of IEM's is the ability to have individual mixes, AND being able to turn the volume down on everything. I used to come home, go to bed, and wake up with my ears still ringing, but now, it only happens if I take one or both of my ears out.
 
#20
Is your IEM setup STEREO?
Do you have multiple ambient mics (L and R stage) ?
A mic for MD Music Director?
Can you EQ each instrument separately for each persons IEM send?


Pan gtr1 hard left, gtr 2 hard right.
Ambient L hard left, R to right.
Only bass and lead vocals in centre.
The rest spread across the sound stage somewhere in between.
EQ each line properly eg. boost mids on kick to 'feel' it more, etc.

I still use a real bass rig live with IEM's but mostly for the feel. I put it on milk crates and stand close to it. :yep:


IEM's = best AND worst sound I've ever gotten at a (separate) gigs.
 

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