- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass EA Wizzy iAmp 500 vs. Bergantino IP112
- Thread starter Lemon
- Start date
Uncletoad said:
Yeah. Last night you parked it out back and when you got up this morning . . . it was gone.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
seanm said:
Good point. In fact, the 800 may be overkill, but I love how the lows are not only really full, but also really quick, the overall clarity and tonal balance is excellent. I suspect that the headroom has something to do with how I am hearing the lows, but I haven't done a side by side A/B with the iAMP 500 and 800 driving two Wizzy's. I'll try and do that one of these days.
Tom.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Johono5 said:
With two equally efficient cabs, and a careful eye for not clipping any gain stages, I feel pretty good about safely driving two Wizzy's with an iAMP 800. But I do worry about pairing it with a less efficient cab like the Acme. My guess is that the tone would be very nice, but that if you pushed it very loud, the Wizzy would dominate the sound, and if you turned it up so that the Acme was really opening up, you might be pushing the Wizzy too hard.
Tom.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
mchildree said:I'd actually love to have a Swizzy...
Heh, and there I was, all thinking about selling mine, but then I had to hear them driven by the DB 750!
Tom.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
mchildree said:You changed your mine just before I had the funds together, Tom! 'Twas the nick of time....
LOL!
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
tombowlus said:
Okay, I was able to do this shootout this afternoon, and I am going to have to eat my words a bit, here. The iAMP 500 drove two Wizzy's two impressively loud levels, and any difference in headroom was minimal. The low end on the 800 seemed a tad more stout, and it had a bit more volume potential, but the difference was not huge, and I actually think that the 500 was more punchy through the mids. Very impressed!
Tom.
Thanks for the shootout! In the back of my mind I always had a niggly feeling that I should have got the 800. I couldn't afford the 800 when I bought the iAMP. Heck, at the time I couldn't afford the 500tombowlus said:Okay, I was able to do this shootout this afternoon, and I am going to have to eat my words a bit, here. The iAMP 500 drove two Wizzy's two impressively loud levels, and any difference in headroom was minimal. The low end on the 800 seemed a tad more stout, and it had a bit more volume potential, but the difference was not huge, and I actually think that the 500 was more punchy through the mids. Very impressed!
Tom.
Now I feel better.I wonder if the fact that the 800 had a stouter low end masked the mids a bit.
Well, for some reason I now feel like having a Guinness. Cheers!
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
seanm said:Thanks for the shootout! In the back of my mind I always had a niggly feeling that I should have got the 800. I couldn't afford the 800 when I bought the iAMP. Heck, at the time I couldn't afford the 500
I wonder if the fact that the 800 had a stouter low end masked the mids a bit.
Well, for some reason I now feel like having a Guinness. Cheers!
Hey, glad to inspire a Guinness!
I have to say, though, an iAMP 500 into two Wizzy's is a very beautiful thing!
I'll probably revisit this at some point, just to be sure. 
Tom.
Tom...
Thanks for comparing these two heads. I've been giving serious thought to purchasing an iamp500 combo specifically for DB. As I mentioned in recent posts, I tried an 800 head with an EA 2x10 cab at AHBG's pad last summer and really dug it...but am still looking for a slightly more portable, one-trip cab/combo for smaller jobs.
I've been advised along the way that a 500 combo would be a better choice than the 200 Wizzy combo due to the amount of headroom and potential volume. I happen to enjoy a lot of low end in my tone -- probably more than most people 'round here might use. Although I'd love an 800 head/combo, I'd like to possibly keep the weight and cost down a bit...
So...a question about your comparsions between the 500 and 800 heads...
Did you perform the test relatively "flat"? If the 800 is a bit more robust in the low end...can this be compensated for by adjusting/boosting the EQ on the 500? I realize you guys are talking two wizzy cabinets and testing headroom on this comparison...but I'm looking at just one cabinet for logistical reasons.
Also -- a question about hook ups... I realize the 200 Wizzy combo has a dedicated line out to connect more powered wizzy cabs. Does the 500 combo also have this option in addition to being able to run UNpowered speakers off the head???
Thanks!
Thanks for comparing these two heads. I've been giving serious thought to purchasing an iamp500 combo specifically for DB. As I mentioned in recent posts, I tried an 800 head with an EA 2x10 cab at AHBG's pad last summer and really dug it...but am still looking for a slightly more portable, one-trip cab/combo for smaller jobs.
I've been advised along the way that a 500 combo would be a better choice than the 200 Wizzy combo due to the amount of headroom and potential volume. I happen to enjoy a lot of low end in my tone -- probably more than most people 'round here might use. Although I'd love an 800 head/combo, I'd like to possibly keep the weight and cost down a bit...
So...a question about your comparsions between the 500 and 800 heads...
Did you perform the test relatively "flat"? If the 800 is a bit more robust in the low end...can this be compensated for by adjusting/boosting the EQ on the 500? I realize you guys are talking two wizzy cabinets and testing headroom on this comparison...but I'm looking at just one cabinet for logistical reasons.
Also -- a question about hook ups... I realize the 200 Wizzy combo has a dedicated line out to connect more powered wizzy cabs. Does the 500 combo also have this option in addition to being able to run UNpowered speakers off the head???
Thanks!
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Jason Hollar said:
Yes, I had the tone controls defeated and the contour switches off on both heads. And please believe me when I say that the difference was really quite slight.
Jason Hollar said:
Yes, the 500 combo allows you to drive an additional unpowered speaker, and the powered Wizzy cabs can be driven by pretty much any source via their XLR input.
Tom.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Okay, here is the rest of the story concerning what I did yesterday over lunch:
I spent as much time as I could going back and forth with these amp/cab combos, both singley and in pairs, using both electric (Skjold Custom 5) and upright (Kay with Barberra bridge). I made numerous observations, and I will try to summarize them here.
The iAMP 800 (or 500!) with two Wizzy's just flat out sounds great! I just love this rig on either electric or upright. The Wizzy's really speak strongly through the mids, and present a warm, yet very articulate tone. They do not have sparkley highs, but this allows them to be a little more soft and round on the high end. You don't get finger noise (with upright) or string noise (with electric) as you can sometimes get when using a tweeter. The low mids are very full, and while the very deepest notes don't go as deep as the Berg's (especially IP112/EX112), on upright, you hardly notice this (though thumping on a 5-string electric does show that the Berg's go deeper, but it's still a great experience with the Wizzy's). My Kay sounded fantastic through this rig, and I think that the Wizzy's were making my Kay sound better than it should. The slight bump to the mids, and the subsequent warming up and rounding off of said mids, seemed to work really well with my Kay. Either of the iAMP heads through two Wizzy's remains one of my favorite setups, and IME/IMHO, it works well with both electric and upright.
The Walter Woods Ultra into two Bergantino 1x12's is a now 'classic' combination. I am using two HT112's, but the tweeter on the bottom cab is turned all the way off. Playing my Skjold through this rig, I heard the almost tube-like lows, sweet mids, and airy highs which are a hallmark of Walter Woods amps. It was very 'exciting' sounding, with plenty of headroom, lots of tight lows, and just tons of cutting high end (I had a set of almost new DR Hi Beams on the Skjold). When I switched to upright, at first I did not like it nearly as well as I liked the EA rig. The high end was a bit too much (lots of left hand noise), and the mids seemed a bit unnatural. The lows were very nice, though. After playing it a bit, I turned the WWU off and listened to my upright on its own. It turns out that the WWU/Berg setup actually sounded more like my bass - just amplified - but the EA rig actually made my (admittedly not top-flight) bass sound better to my ears. But, as you will read below, the IP/EX setup exceeded this rig, and it also pointed out that the WWU/Berg rig was rather colored sounding. My conclusion was that this is a killer electric rig, but not as good as the other two with upright. For whatever reason, though, one HT112 with the WWU sounded better on upright than did using both cabs.
Okay, now the real test - the IP112 (with and without the EX112)! Just for kicks, I tried plugging my Barberra bridge directly into the IP112. While this technique works great with magnetic pickups, I would not recommend this at all with a piezo pickup. The input impedance is far too low for piezo's. I knew that this would be the result, but I had to try it out anyway. So, I had to use a buffering preamp, but I wanted to use something very uncolored, but which allowed for a higher input impedance. I ended up grabbing my Summit Audio TD-100, set the input impedance for somewhere between 1 Meg and 2 Meg, and I was ready to go! Man, oh man, did this sound nice! This truly was the sound of my bass, only louder. The lows were very full (and some would argue that this can end up sounding strange, since the natural low end from an upright tends to fall off - in most rooms - as you get further away from it), the highs were smooth and clear, but not harsh in any way, and the mids were, well, they were my Kay - which is to say that I've heard much better mids from a high end carved top bass, but I was impressed with the accuracy. This is a flat out great upright rig, and I liked it very much. I did find that one IP112 is most definitely all that you will ever need for upright. No need for the EX112 if you're just playing upright. Now, I had used this rig with electric bass before, and I just love it plugged straight in. But, I had to try my Skjold through the Summit Audio preamp, and man, I was blown away by the increased volume potential with a preamp! This rig is a real giant-killer! The lows are amazingly full, even down to low B. The mids are beautiful and singing (because that's what my Skjold sounds like) and the highs are fast, crisp, clear, and not harsh at all.
So, is there a 'bottom line' result from this mini shootout? I don't really know. I guess I'd say that it highlighted the fact that I love that EA rig (it ain't necessarily flat - and the Wizzy's weren't designed to be flat - but dang it sounds good!); it reinforced my suspicion that the Walter Woods is a fairly colored amp (and Walter will tell you that it is supposed to be 'colored' and that he spent a lot of time getting it to sound just like he wanted it to), and that I love that coloration with certain gear combinations, but not so much with others; and it certainly answered any lingering questions I might have had regarding the IP112's suitability to upright. Except for possibly having more low end than some people want (and it's not boosting the lows, it's just making your actually tone loueder, but without falling off at all in the lows), it may be my new standard reference upright rig.
Hope this helps!
Tom.
I spent as much time as I could going back and forth with these amp/cab combos, both singley and in pairs, using both electric (Skjold Custom 5) and upright (Kay with Barberra bridge). I made numerous observations, and I will try to summarize them here.
The iAMP 800 (or 500!) with two Wizzy's just flat out sounds great!
I just love this rig on either electric or upright. The Wizzy's really speak strongly through the mids, and present a warm, yet very articulate tone. They do not have sparkley highs, but this allows them to be a little more soft and round on the high end. You don't get finger noise (with upright) or string noise (with electric) as you can sometimes get when using a tweeter. The low mids are very full, and while the very deepest notes don't go as deep as the Berg's (especially IP112/EX112), on upright, you hardly notice this (though thumping on a 5-string electric does show that the Berg's go deeper, but it's still a great experience with the Wizzy's). My Kay sounded fantastic through this rig, and I think that the Wizzy's were making my Kay sound better than it should. The slight bump to the mids, and the subsequent warming up and rounding off of said mids, seemed to work really well with my Kay. Either of the iAMP heads through two Wizzy's remains one of my favorite setups, and IME/IMHO, it works well with both electric and upright.The Walter Woods Ultra into two Bergantino 1x12's is a now 'classic' combination. I am using two HT112's, but the tweeter on the bottom cab is turned all the way off. Playing my Skjold through this rig, I heard the almost tube-like lows, sweet mids, and airy highs which are a hallmark of Walter Woods amps. It was very 'exciting' sounding, with plenty of headroom, lots of tight lows, and just tons of cutting high end (I had a set of almost new DR Hi Beams on the Skjold). When I switched to upright, at first I did not like it nearly as well as I liked the EA rig. The high end was a bit too much (lots of left hand noise), and the mids seemed a bit unnatural. The lows were very nice, though. After playing it a bit, I turned the WWU off and listened to my upright on its own. It turns out that the WWU/Berg setup actually sounded more like my bass - just amplified - but the EA rig actually made my (admittedly not top-flight) bass sound better to my ears. But, as you will read below, the IP/EX setup exceeded this rig, and it also pointed out that the WWU/Berg rig was rather colored sounding. My conclusion was that this is a killer electric rig, but not as good as the other two with upright. For whatever reason, though, one HT112 with the WWU sounded better on upright than did using both cabs.
Okay, now the real test - the IP112 (with and without the EX112)! Just for kicks, I tried plugging my Barberra bridge directly into the IP112. While this technique works great with magnetic pickups, I would not recommend this at all with a piezo pickup. The input impedance is far too low for piezo's. I knew that this would be the result, but I had to try it out anyway. So, I had to use a buffering preamp, but I wanted to use something very uncolored, but which allowed for a higher input impedance. I ended up grabbing my Summit Audio TD-100, set the input impedance for somewhere between 1 Meg and 2 Meg, and I was ready to go! Man, oh man, did this sound nice! This truly was the sound of my bass, only louder. The lows were very full (and some would argue that this can end up sounding strange, since the natural low end from an upright tends to fall off - in most rooms - as you get further away from it), the highs were smooth and clear, but not harsh in any way, and the mids were, well, they were my Kay - which is to say that I've heard much better mids from a high end carved top bass, but I was impressed with the accuracy. This is a flat out great upright rig, and I liked it very much. I did find that one IP112 is most definitely all that you will ever need for upright. No need for the EX112 if you're just playing upright. Now, I had used this rig with electric bass before, and I just love it plugged straight in. But, I had to try my Skjold through the Summit Audio preamp, and man, I was blown away by the increased volume potential with a preamp! This rig is a real giant-killer! The lows are amazingly full, even down to low B. The mids are beautiful and singing (because that's what my Skjold sounds like) and the highs are fast, crisp, clear, and not harsh at all.
So, is there a 'bottom line' result from this mini shootout? I don't really know. I guess I'd say that it highlighted the fact that I love that EA rig (it ain't necessarily flat - and the Wizzy's weren't designed to be flat - but dang it sounds good!); it reinforced my suspicion that the Walter Woods is a fairly colored amp (and Walter will tell you that it is supposed to be 'colored' and that he spent a lot of time getting it to sound just like he wanted it to), and that I love that coloration with certain gear combinations, but not so much with others; and it certainly answered any lingering questions I might have had regarding the IP112's suitability to upright. Except for possibly having more low end than some people want (and it's not boosting the lows, it's just making your actually tone loueder, but without falling off at all in the lows), it may be my new standard reference upright rig.
Hope this helps!
Tom.
Johono5 said:
I would be personally more concerned with the difference in sensitivity. I don't actually have an Acme ... but aren't they extremely inefficient, whereas the Wizzy is ultra-efficient?
edit: doh! I should read all of a thread before replying ... I see that Tom said much the same thing already ...
Maybe someone with both will chime in ... it's not a combo I would have thought of putting together, but maybe the real-world is different than theory and numbers ... (ya think?)
Actually, that reminds me of a saying a guy I used to know used as his email sig:
How true ...
Cheers,
Liam
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Not directly. I think you could run the powered wizzy cab from the effects send. You would need a Y cable to do it.Jason Hollar said:
The 500C is literally a wizzy with a airspace on top to install the iAMP. The amp is held in place with 6 very long bolts.
There is then a speakon coming out of the wizzy cab that plugs into the iAMP just like a normal cab. While you would probably just leave this plugged in all the time you can use the wizzy as a standalone cab (adapters required) and use the iAMP as a standalone head.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,952
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
seanm said:
I thought that the 500 combo (which was initially a custom order) did allow for powering another speaker with its internal amp, whereas the 200 combo did not. Maybe they changed it? At any rate, since the 'head portion' of the 500 combo can power another speaker (safe to 2 ohms), it should be an easy mod to allow for a speakon output (it's already there, if they did cover it up).
Tom.
