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earplugs during concerts?

#21
AuG said:
So these supposed 100$ ear plugs....do they really outperform say a set of .99 cent soft foam plugs?
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Yes and no.

Yes in terms of frequency response. Your typical inexpensive foam earplugs don't attenuate evenly -- what I usually hear from people is that they roll off higher frequencies more than the lower ones. This can give a boomy/muddy/indistinct sound that makes it hard to hear exactly what's going on.

The expensive ear plugs -- or even $12 ER-20s -- attenuate frequencies more evenly, so when you put them in, it's like simply turning the volume control down on the world; the tone and character of what you hear doesn't change much.

No in terms of raw attenuation. If all you want to do is make things quieter and you don't care how things sound, the cheap foam ones work great. In fact they're probably safer/better to use when you're running a chainsaw or whatever.

There's more to it than that, but that's the general idea. If el-cheapo foam plugs are working for you -- if you can still hear what you need to hear and you don't find the tone annoying -- then by all means stay with 'em!

The main thing is to keep your hearing safe. How you do it (including simply turning down) is way less important. :)

'rick
 
#22
AuG said:
So these supposed 100$ ear plugs....do they really outperform say a set of .99 cent soft foam plugs? That's all I use, and they work alright. Are the "expensive" plugs really worth it if they do the same thing as any other set?

AuG
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I've had to wear earplugs at work at various times for years...

My opinion: Expensive custom-fitted earplugs can be more comfortable, and offer a slight degree of better protection (mostly from the tighter fit).

However, even the cheap throw-away foam jobs can be quite adequate if inserted correctly. The key with any earplugs, custom or not, is proper insertion.

An analogy: motorcycle helmets. An expensive one will be quieter, lighter, and fit better, but even a basic $75 cheap helmet is a heckuva lot better than having one's bare head hit the pavement.
 
#23
I'm pretty stinking jealous of those guys who can play for over 20 years with no earplugs and no hearing loss.

Heck, my ears start to hurt when I'm in jazz band and the trumpets start going to town... Not to mention the incessant ringing of that darned ride cymbal!

It'd be a lot nicer if I could play as loud as I need to without hearing damage. I've already turned my amp down almost as far as it goes and rerouted "gig volume" through the PA. We don't have enough PA to do that with the bass, though, so the bass volume creeps up, and my option is either to not hear my guitar (our monitors suck) or just turn it back up and pop in the earplugs...

If you can play loud and not be affected, consider yourself lucky. Not all of us can do this, and it's better safe than sorry.

Btw, I'd like to remind everyone that needing earplugs does not necessarily mean that you're playing "too loud" (I used to believe this). I've found that my ears start to hurt well below the rated dB level that is "supposed" to start doing damage, so none of this "just turn down" business. Sometimes that's not an option - such as when the whole concert band is playing fortissimo... what can you do, ask the director to "turn it down"? I don't think so.
 
#25
JimmyM said:
The you should definitely wear earplugs. You apparently have more sensitive eardrums than most. I would also advise going to see an ear specialist if you haven't.
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I've done all I can afford... I actually had a pair of the expensive musician's earplugs on order a couple of years ago, but the stupid place didn't ever get them in. Then they called me 6 months later trying to collect, and when I told them I never received the earplugs, they were perplexed. I haven't heard from them since.

But I've had my ears checked and apparently, despite the constant ringing in my left ear, I still meet all the requirements of "normal" hearing. I just worry about it sometimes since I didn't have anything to check it against... maybe I had exceptional hearing at first and have since destroyed it...?

Protect yourself, folks. Earplugs will not hurt you.
 
#26
Dkerwood, that actually fits pretty closely with my experience. I suffer from tinnitus to a degree, and it only really starting becoming evident early this Summer. In the years before that, it seemed to me as if I was developing a sensitivity peak in the upper midrange.

In fact while out hiking in the evening near a swampy area this Spring, I found the crickets and tree frogs to be almost painfully loud!

(I wonder if maybe, as you get close to losing frequencies, the "gain" of your ear/brain goes up in those ranges. Maybe a natural self-defense mechanism... you start damaging that range of your hearing, so the gain gets cranked up such that you won't stay around the loud noises that have been doing the damage?)

I dunno... maybe I'm reading too much into it (hearing too much in it? Heh.) I haven't found anything that supports that theory (although "hypersensitivity" IS listed as one of the symptoms of over-exposure). But it does seem an odd coincidence if that's all it is.

Regarding your comments about needing earplugs below the supposed damage level: I'll buy into that and remind everyone that the "supposed damage level" is way below what most of us think of as "too loud." The threshold used to be 85db SPL (about the level of noisy traffic). But the damage can also come from long-term exposure to lower levels, and the EPA is now saying that regular exposure to only 70db SPL over the years can damage your hearing.

Guess what, 70db is about what some clothes washers, hair dryers and vacuum cleaners put out! In other words, ordinary every-day noise.

I can't find it right now, but when I was researching tinnitus earlier this year, I came across a cumulative exposure chart that implied even waitstaff working in a noisy restaurant (not a place with music, just loud conversation) for 40 hours a week should be wearing hearing protection. That seemed over the top at first, but some charts show that normal conversation can approach 70db SPL, which fits with what the EPA is now setting as the long-term threshold.

Personally, I'd have dismissed a lot of this as overly cautious if you'd asked me a year ago. And excluding school band, I've only ever been in two groups (for a year or so each, and we weren't that loud), I'd always used earplugs for things like running a chainsaw, I didn't play my stereo anywhere near as loud as most of my friends, and so on. I thought I safe... right up until this year when I started having to deal with tinnitus.

Look... we only have one pair of ears each. The musicians among us rely on them as tools of our trade. Those of us who just love music rely on them to enjoy that music. By the time you are aware you're doing damage, it's too late. Our current technology doesn't allow us to repair inner-ear damage. Quality earplugs are inexpensive, readily available, and not terribly uncomfortable.

Seems like a pretty straightforward equation to me. Especially when I sit back and listen to the incessant multi-frequency squealing in my ears. Or when I look at my brother, who has to wear hearing aids to be able to understand a conversation.

Just... think about it, people. That's all.

'rick
 
#28
I actually just recently started wearing them. Last practice I had I had to leave to go get some.

I was getting a scratchy sound in my right ear from time to time.. And I could FEEL the pressure of the soundwaves on my eardrum. This is obviously from years of abuse. The damage has been done. But I am definately not going deaf. Screw that.
 
#31
Hear is an unintentional semi-scientific experiment for you...

Earlier this week at practice, I noticed I had lost an ear plug. They are the $10 type, that baffles sound but doesn't change it's sonic structure all that much. Well worth it IMO. I suffer from tinitus. It's pretty bad actually, but I'm used to it. I just don't want it to get worse, and I tend to have ringing ears longer than most people would after loud things like band practice or concerts. So I started wearing them about six months ago to get in the habit and hopefully preserve my hearing a little better.

Well, I lost one so the other night I just put it in one ear - the ear closest to the drummer and guitar players. The other one was unplugged but facing away from all the noise. It was kinda strange at first but eventually I didn't think about it. After practice, I took out the plug and was amazed to notice how much better I could hear out of my left ear and how much ringing was going on in my right one. I could tell a difference for the next several hours in fact.

Anyone who thinks they don't need earplugs is probably wrong. I know I won't be playing without them at least until I invest in some in ear monitors.
 
#32
Here's an update for you.

I went to a small rock club tonight to hear from local and regional touring bands. Turns out a guy I knew in college was headlining the show with his band, which is cool.

Anyway, we missed the first of three bands, but showed up in time to catch band number 2. We move immediately up to the front center (I've been to this club before, and they have a reputation for being too loud, so I do whatever I can to avoid the blast of the PA). The guitarist is using a half stack cranked up too loud and pointed at his knees, which, thanks to the stage height, ended up being pointed directly at my head. To add to that, the PA now includes 2 cabs that are intended to eliminate that "safe zone" in front center where I like to stand and be bypassed by the loud loud loud PA. Not good.

Anyway, they go through about five songs, and you know the drill. You plug your ear that's closest to the loudest thing and groove for a while... then you turn and plug the other ear. I ended up walking out into the other room for a couple of minutes to give my ears a rest.

So after this band gets off stage, they throw a tshirt out into the crowd, and I nab it out of the air. I run it out to my car, and on a whim, I decide to look to see if my spare pair of earplugs were with me. Luckily I found them, put them in, and went back inside.

Now my buddy's band is onstage. They start playing, and my first thought is, "Man, they're playing quiet... I can hear every note from every instrument!" I pull one plug out to check, and instantly, all the clarity was gone. It was just a washed out, painful, too loud mess like the first band. I pop the plug back in, and once again, the instruments have all returned. I loved it!

I was talking to my sister after the show and was raving about how I could hear every note that the lead guitarist was playing (I should also note that although the PA was loud, the bassist was using a Hartke kickback combo for a monitor, one guitarist was using a 1x12 Laney, and the other was using a Fender Deluxe. Amazing what can happen when you let the PA system do its job and not try to fill up the room with your own bloody amp, huh). Her reply? "I couldn't." It's amazing how much more you can hear when you just turn the volume down a bit.

As a side note, I loved the fact that I could sing along and actually hear myself without losing my voice (I usually oversing at concerts, believing that trying to sing over the PA actually accomplishes something). Thanks occlusion!

The plugs get a rave review from me, and now they may have even earned a place on my keychain, so I won't be without them again (my main pair stays in the back of my guitar amp).
 
#33
Every musician that plays rock music or anything louder should definitely have ear plugs. I find that when playing at a club, bar, or anywhere where the crowd is close to the stage and noisy, they help you hear the rest of the band more clearly. They also help me hear my individual bass notes more adequately. I've been using a pair of "mushroom cap" style plugs I bought for about 15 bucks for probably five years now, and will never practice or gig without them, or some kind of ear protection.

That "slight ringing" you might hear after a show or practice for an hour or two is still permanent hearing damage. What is happening is that the very tiny hairs in your ear that make you hear are vibrating so quickly, that they actually end up falling out, which causes a permanent reduction in your ability to hear.

Ever notice how many rock concerts will have the bass turned way up? It's probably because the sound guy has hearing damage from years of abusing his ears, and can't hear the bass unless it's jacked way up, distorting the sound. Wearing ear plugs while at a concert will actually correct this inbalance to an extent, and make the music much more enjoyable.

Yeah, not wearing plugs is really cool when in five to ten years you can't hear the upper treble range in music, or you have to hear constant ringing at different levels for the rest of your life :hmm: Personally, I still want to be able to fully appreciate music when I'm retired many years from now as much as I do now.
 
#34
invader3k said:
That "slight ringing" you might hear after a show or practice for an hour or two is still permanent hearing damage. What is happening is that the very tiny hairs in your ear that make you hear are vibrating so quickly, that they actually end up falling out, which causes a permanent reduction in your ability to hear.
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I'd agree with your post 1000% except for this part. When you play louder, it doesn't make things vibrate faster, just with more amplitude, so it seems doubtful that inner-ear hairs fall out from vibrating too quickly. 'Faster' vibrations would be related to higher-pitched sound signals, not greater amplitudes.
 

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