Double Bass EBS Stanley Clarke vs Felix 2 for mic/pickup blending

[cultrvultr]

I've been using a lifeline and fishman platinum pro for years.

I'm not in love with the fishman, and thinking about blending a mic with the pickup. Prefer a pedal format to get easy mute and boost.

it seems like the Felix 2 and EBS Stanley Clarke are two of the more popular options. Has anyone compared the two? I found the EBS pedals to usually have a lot of baked in "tone". Does the Stanley Clarke sound more transparent?

 

[brianrost]

I've tried neither so can't comment on the sound but one thing that Grace offers that EBS does not: an onboard AC supply and an IEC power cord.

I have an extreme aversion to wall warts for live use. Seen too many of them fail due to the skinny cords. Grace is the only company offering an AC-supplied dual channel preamp in a pedal format. For the privilege you get to pay more than 2x the price of the EBS

 

[Ric Vice]

The Grace is an exceptional preamp, it will do all that you're looking for. I've owned one since the second year they were on the market. If you're looking for something that's more affordable
the Headway EDB-2 H.E. is a full featured dual channel preamp at about a third of the cost of the Grace. Just my take of course. I have no experience with the EBS, so I'll not "monday morning quarterback"
a preamp I have zero experience with. One thing to consider is that Grace has a 5 year transferable warranty. I've had first hand experience with their service department and it's really excellent.

 

[BassinCT]

No experience with the EBS, but here is an earlier thread with some shared experiences:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ebs-stanley-clarke-signature-acoustic-preamp.1583373/

As an audience member here in CT and in NYC, I have seen and heard the Felix 2 being used a few times for both blending and piezo buffering. In every instance, the sound coming from the stage and house systems was great. It seems like the most flexible acoustic blender on the market. After drooling over the Felix2 for a year, I decided to try the Headway EDB-2 HE and I am definitely keeping it.

 

[cultrvultr]

Thanks all, something to think about. I wish there was an easier way to try these things in person!

So many of the groups I play with use the Felix for their other acoustic instruments. I'll keep an eye out for a used one. I'm going to try and see what other options exist for blending from more general pro audio companies

 

[Ric Vice]

Thanks all, something to think about. I wish there was an easier way to try these things in person!

So many of the groups I play with use the Felix for their other acoustic instruments. I'll keep an eye out for a used one. I'm going to try and see what other options exist for blending from more general pro audio companies

Good luck, they do come up on occasion but not often. There was a Felix v1 in the TB classified section a while back.

 

[BassDuex]

For blending 2 channels I am absolutely loving the Headway EDB 2 VAP. It is incredibly flexible and effective. I mount mine on a small arm on my mic stand and everything is in reach. Yes it uses a wall wart, but it also runs on batteries if you want to simplify for performance. I run 1 TRS from a stereo Vic's model C to the EDB right next to me, and wireless to my amp.
On my bass Vic's >> FishFC.

 

[Ric Vice]

For blending 2 channels I am absolutely loving the Headway EDB 2 VAP. It is incredibly flexible and effective. I mount mine on a small arm on my mic stand and everything is in reach. Yes it uses a wall wart, but it also runs on batteries if you want to simplify for performance. I run 1 TRS from a stereo Vic's model C to the EDB right next to me, and wireless to my amp.
On my bass Vic's >> FishFC.

Glad to hear that the newer model lives up to the Headway EDB-2 H.E.'s reputation. The Headway VAP is still considerably less expensive than the Grace Felix 2 and smaller. John did mention that
you can't power the tube using batteries, because the it requires higher voltages than the two 9 volts can provide.

 

[BassDuex]

Yeah the manual covers that also. The tube certainly affords come textural changes in the mids and highs, so running on batteries is a trade off. The non-tube EDB2 is a tremendous value with respect to 2 channel features also.

I went with VAP version as I was wanting to eliminate a Sarno BB if possible. I don't feel the Sarno adds anything to the signal chain, but I am hesitant to think it's the tube in the VAP - I think it serves a different function than buffering in the Sarno unit. Anyhow, don't need the extra piece of gear so I'm happy.

 

[james condino]

Sell you car and use the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to purchase the Felix.

 

[Ric Vice]

Yeah the manual covers that also. The tube certainly affords come textural changes in the mids and highs, so running on batteries is a trade off. The non-tube EDB2 is a tremendous value with respect to 2 channel features also.

I went with VAP version as I was wanting to eliminate a Sarno BB if possible. I don't feel the Sarno adds anything to the signal chain, but I am hesitant to think it's the tube in the VAP - I think it serves a different function than buffering in the Sarno unit. Anyhow, don't need the extra piece of gear so I'm happy.

I had similar thoughts when I tried out the Sarno BB with a Grace Felix. The benefits of the Sarno aren't enough for me to justify lugging the additional box around. I'm happy with the way the EDB-2 H.E. works and I got mine used at a substantially lower price than they go for new. It's all good

 

[Ric Vice]

Sell you car and use the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to purchase the Felix.

Absolutely, it's hard to justify the cost of the Grace, unless you're a touring musician who mostly plays auditoriums and outdoor festivals. You're not going to hear what it can do in a crowded neighborhood bar on St. Patrick's day

 

[redtomfunk]

from my limited experience I have to say though that the Sarno V8 is the nicest sounding preamp for acoustic basses (my terms of comparison are Noble DI, REDDI, Jule Monique). Surely lacking flexible eq options but that is not the point. And this is why I am reading this as I need a flexible eq and 2 channels. It is not a pleasure to lug around (I have it mounted in a shelf along with the BB, it makes 3 rack units with the furman I coupled it with) so I am looking at something that could also work on its own live. Perhaps the EDB2-VAP which has tubes better than the Felix and the EBS Acoustic preamp?

 

[BassDuex]

I have the Headway EDB-2 VAP and the Felix 2. I had assumed the Felix 2 would replace my VAP, but I'm having second thoughts about that.

Both are a significant step up in terms of sound quality from the Fishman Plat Pro I have been using for… idk 8 years or so? On my rig, replacing my Full Circle with a Vic's setup was a huge upgrade in tone.

The build quality and durability of the Felix is more robust. It has a mute button, and the top panel layout is more user friendly, for the most part. IEC power cable.
In my experience the biggest disappointment in the Grace is that you can only have a HPF -or- a Notch filter on each channel. All of this $$ and I still feel like I'm making concessions or need to run extra pedals.

With the Headway, both channels have HPF and you can select which channel to use the Notch filter. I use the utilities constantly.

To my ear, I significantly prefer the eq section of the Headway. I have mixed opinion about the tube drive. The Headway layout is more like a mixer with lots of tiny knobs, but I don't feel like I'm giving anything up (ie HPF/Notch), and the only additional utility I need is a Tuner, but I just use a clip on if I want to pack light. Another concern with Headway is I've seen a fair number of grievances on TB regarding flaws with prior units and folks feeling like the customer service is poor.

 

[LaFaro01]

If you want to surpass the Felix in terms of transparency and dynamics (and price ), then you can also use 2 API-500 preamps with a small mixer/switch...

Whether all the effort is worth it is another question...

 

[Ric Vice]

I have the Headway EDB-2 VAP and the Felix 2. I had assumed the Felix 2 would replace my VAP, but I'm having second thoughts about that.


The build quality and durability of the Felix is more robust. It has a mute button, and the top panel layout is more user friendly, for the most part. IEC power cable.
In my experience the biggest disappointment in the Grace is that you can only have a HPF -or- a Notch filter on each channel. All of this $$ and I still feel like I'm making concessions or need to run extra pedals.

With the Headway, both channels have HPF and you can select which channel to use the Notch filter. I use the utilities constantly.

To my ear, I significantly prefer the eq section of the Headway. I have mixed opinion about the tube drive. The Headway layout is more like a mixer with lots of tiny knobs, but I don't feel like I'm giving anything up (ie HPF/Notch), and the only additional utility I need is a Tuner, but I just use a clip on if I want to pack light. Another concern with Headway is I've seen a fair number of grievances on TB regarding flaws with prior units and folks feeling like the customer service is poor.

In all fairness to John Littler and Headway, they got all the kinks of the EDB-2 worked out by releasing the EDB-2 H.E. and then some . From then on IME, it's been a stable platform. For the price point it resides in the EDB-2 H.E. is a great value.
Like the Headway the Grace is designed to work with all the string instruments, including guitar and it's exotic cousins. That's why the Notch Filter was a important feature while the HPF was for us folks swimming in the deep end of the pool. I've
never had to use the Notch on either box because all the other EQ controls have everything covered. Just my take. For the most part, the sound levels I'm performing at are modest.

 

[cultrvultr]

Plot twist! I thought more about my need to blend a mic & pickup. With my thumpy plywood Shen & Evah slaps, playing bluegrassy music, there is less "air" that I need to capture than a fully carved bass playing sensitive jazz or arco/classical.

My current mic is a clip-on Audio Technica that I use very rarely. In the event I use the mic, I usually just send it to the house and they can deal with two separate channels.

I've got a Grace Alix on the way to try out. The Alix has everything I typically use in a pedalboard for my pickup (10M buffer, eq, volume, DI, boost, mute footswitch). The Alix can also power the AT mic at 12V if I want to go Mic only.

I'm still curious to try the Headway and Red Eye, but will try the Grace first since the return policy is much more straightforward.

 

[cultrvultr]

Did my first two gigs yesterday with the Alix.

1 hour bluegrass festival set at a big open hall. 2min setup, hurried on and off kind of thing. Up on a big boomy stage, with my amp for a little monitoring.

I had the Alix set totally flat and the bass sounded very good but maybe a little bit thin vs what I was used to from overdriving the fishman plat pro and cranking the bass knob.

the second gig was 3+ hours so I had more time to play with the sound throughout the night.

I started flat again, but this time went into the line in of my Genzler Magellan + AI upshot combo. It sounded so much better than using the regular instrument input.
Boosting the bass a bit and cutting the highs gave me a fun, thumpy tone.

No matter what I tried eq wise i never lost the natural sounding "air" and upper midrange that kept the bass feeling acoustic. With other preamps I feel like even a little bit of eq can instantly kill the acoustic sound and make everything feel very electric. The grace is really great.

the only potentially negative thing I noticed was that while I was testing at home I heard a little bit of pot scratching while turning the eq knobs. At the gigs I couldn't hear anything, so it could have just been a new unit that was sitting around for a bit.