Eden 550 question, clipping, compressing

[JonathanD]

Ok so I am getting output clipping before the output limit light comes on. If I go one more click to the right and play the same notes I get the light to light with the clipping. I assumed that output limit light meant the limiter is coming on. But I am getting distortion. Is this bad? Does this mean that maybe the limiters settings are just a touch off?

Really don't ask if its the tube/cables... give me a frigin break I changed everything... I'm clipping the output.

Anyway... another related question...
Right now I am playing an EBMMstingray straigh into the amp. I set the amp as per the manual and have the eq flat. I am running into 1 or 2 acme 210s or an Ampeg 610.
My problem seem to be that I play a wide range of dynamics. Too wide for playing out really. Sometimes I need to pluck the string hard to get the sound I want but I don't need the extra volume that technique gets me. Should I set my gain higher so the compressor kicks in earlier on my signal? I have not tried that because I don;t want to see if I can clip again.

Any comments?
Jonathan

 

[One Drop]

It sounds like you might need a good outboard compressor to deal with the second question.

I'm sorry but I can't really figure out what you mean by the first.

I own a 550. I set the gain by pulling out the enhance knob, thus disengaging the compressor. Then I play the hardest I do normally on the open E and raise the gain until the green set light is just blinking a bit. Then I engage the compressor and go- I sometimes raise the gain a drop but not to the point of distortion.

 

[dela217]

I pretty much have the same trouble with my 550. I get lots of clipping and farting. I am running the 550 through the Eden 2X10 XST. You know, the cab with the extra low frequency output. (Yeah, right.) Everyone raves about this setup. To me it just is not loud enough to keep up with a normal band's stage volume. I was thinking of adding another Eden cabinet, but I am afraid to spend the cash to find out that I will end up with another Eden cabinet that just farts. I have been using this Eden setup because it is so easy to carry, get in and out of the car, etc. But to me, it's just an overpriced practice amp.

I also have a GK 1001 and a GK 4x10. It is much less money than that Eden setup and sounds fantastic. I just don't get what everyone raves about with this Eden stuff. Sounds great at home when I am practicing though....

This is of course, just my opinion.

Michael

 

[bongomania]

I didn't like the compressor on my old WT400 at all, I didn't feel it was doing a very good job either as a limiter or as a "gentle smoother". I don't know if they used the same comp design in the 550 or not. I would recommend trying an outboard compressor to see if regulating your levels at the input will help with clipping at the output. It should, obviously, but you never know for sure until you try it.

 

[KJung]

Ok so I am getting output clipping before the output limit light comes on. If I go one more click to the right and play the same notes I get the light to light with the clipping. I assumed that output limit light meant the limiter is coming on. But I am getting distortion. Is this bad? Does this mean that maybe the limiters settings are just a touch off?

Really don't ask if its the tube/cables... give me a frigin break I changed everything... I'm clipping the output.

Anyway... another related question...
Right now I am playing an EBMMstingray straigh into the amp. I set the amp as per the manual and have the eq flat. I am running into 1 or 2 acme 210s or an Ampeg 610.
My problem seem to be that I play a wide range of dynamics. Too wide for playing out really. Sometimes I need to pluck the string hard to get the sound I want but I don't need the extra volume that technique gets me. Should I set my gain higher so the compressor kicks in earlier on my signal? I have not tried that because I don;t want to see if I can clip again.

Any comments?
Jonathan

Lot's of info in your post! So, I assume you have the gain set so that you aren't getting excessive limiting (from the pre compression circuit). That circuit is similar to the Thunderfunks.. it's more of a 'safety limiter' to tame excessive input spikes rather than a full function compressor. So, you should have the input gain set so that the limiter only comes on at your hardest, lowest hits. With aggressive technique, and a hot output bass, I would not be surprised if you had to keep the input gain set quite low, or even use the 'active' input pad.

Regarding output clipping, and output limiting, it would not surprise me that this amp would seriously run out of headroom running one or two Acme B210's, which literally define the term 'low SPL'. Those cabs can easily cruise along with 500 watts or more into each of them. Assuming they are 8ohms, you'd be putting only half that amount in there.

If that's the case (and if adjusting the input gain doesn't help)... I would either check out more efficient cabs or move up to a head with more wump to drive the Acme's.

 

[Munjibunga]

I pretty much have the same trouble with my 550. I get lots of clipping and farting. I am running the 550 through the Eden 2X10 XST. You know, the cab with the extra low frequency output. (Yeah, right.) Everyone raves about this setup. To me it just is not loud enough to keep up with a normal band's stage volume.

Sorry, while your setup is a great rig, it would be a stretch to play a medium venue with it. Not enough power, not enough speaker. Try the WT-550 with a D-410XLT and you'll do better. Either that, or add a D-210XLT. Before I got my WT-800, I used to run my little WT-300 into a D-210XLT plus a D-410XLT. Using all the power it could muster, I could do small outdoor gigs, but nothing where high volume was required.

 

[One Drop]

I pretty much have the same trouble with my 550. I get lots of clipping and farting. I am running the 550 through the Eden 2X10 XST. You know, the cab with the extra low frequency output. (Yeah, right.) Everyone raves about this setup. To me it just is not loud enough to keep up with a normal band's stage volume. I was thinking of adding another Eden cabinet, but I am afraid to spend the cash to find out that I will end up with another Eden cabinet that just farts. I have been using this Eden setup because it is so easy to carry, get in and out of the car, etc. But to me, it's just an overpriced practice amp.

Michael

If you're getting a lot of clipping and farting it's because you're not setting the gain structure right, or you're simply trying to do too much with too little speakerage of the wrong type.

The XST doesn't have the low-mid bump the XLT series has and so doesn't seem as loud or cut through as many cabs. Many use the XLT as a standalone instead because of this, or mate the 210XST with a 212XLT or a 210XLT.

If you added a 210XLT, a 410XLT, or a 212XLT to your cab you'd have a great full frequency rig with the added lows of extra speakers and the coupling effect, and you'd be using more of the power your 550 has on tap.

You're comparing your GK 410 to an Eden 210, not very fair, IMO.

Don't blame the equipment for being used outside of its design parameters...

 

[justBrian]

And be sure to start with everything flat--the EQ on Eden amps is quite powerful. I have a WT600->Goliath I and find that I need to bump (like one or two clicks) 350 and 3K and that's about it. I also have a WT330 into the same cab and keep it all flat. Oh, and I don't use the Enhance knob at all.

 

[JonathanD]

Yep, well it looks like I will have to use the QSC2402 mor often than I thought as a slave and maybe run all 3 acme 210 cabs.
Jonathan

 

[dela217]

One Drop - You are right, it is not fair to compare the 4x10 to the 2x10. I just have so much trouble even hearing the little Eden rig. I am going to try to borrow a Eden 2x10 XLT from a friend to see if adding one of these helps. I really love the tone, but my only complaint is I just need some more omph. I am not trying to fill a room up with lows, just trying to hear myself on stage. I just let the mains take care of the rest. I will let you know how it goes when I add the cab to it.

Thanks guys,
Michael

 

[matt11]

I think the amp-cab combinations are the problem. I run a 210xlt with a 210xst with my wt550 (both 4ohms--thus 750 watts at 2ohms) and get PLENTY of volume and definition. I think you need either to sell the wt550 and get a more powerful head to run with your cabs, or else sell the cabs and get two 4ohm 210s (Eden, Aguilar, etc). Of course, for larger venues I always run through the PA as well anyway, but I don't find the wt550 is lacking anything in terms of volume or quality of sound as compared to my Mesa/Boogie 400+ (although different sounds for sure).

 

[One Drop]

I think you'll be happy with the results, dela217. The XLT series are all about being heard, and they really stand out in a mix if you need or want that. It's all in the mids...

I always carry a bit more speakerage than I 'need'- better safe than sorry, and in the long run you save wear and tear on the speakers and the amps.