Eden/Acme

[dela217]

I have been using an Eden WT550 into a 4 ohm Eden 210 XST. Last night I lugged this simple rig to my gig. When I got there, the opening band had a bassist that played upright into a small pre-amp into a QSC power amp into an Acme Low B. I got to chatting with him about the Acme and Eden stuff. We had a few minutes before we started to set up, so he and I did a little shootout of the 2x10 boxes. Those cabs are not even in the same league!! That little Acme just blew away the Eden hands down. I've always had sooo much trouble getting a decent tone/bottom end out of that XST. I could never really hear it. I did not change any amp settings, but kept unplugging the Eden box and plugging in the Acme, comparing the sound. The tone of the Acme was thunderous, clear, and very hi-fi. The Eden is very mid heavy cab to my ears. In the comparison, we had the Eden WT550 set flat and just kept switching the cabs. I kept hearing stories about the Acme and it's efficiency, but I found hardly any difference at all in comparing it to the Eden 2x10. In fact when the Eden gave up volume wise and started farting, the Acme just bloomed and got better sounding and louder.

Now if I can only compare a Bag End 210 with the Acme, I can narrow down my purchase decision. Has anyone out there compared these 2?

Now I understand what all the Acme fuss is about.

 

[KJung]

If you like that huge low end of the Acme, no other 210 (other than the discontinued EA VL-210) will give you that sort of tone. The Bag End line of speakers is very mid punchy in general, and to my ear is closer to your XST than the B210.

I actually prefer the Eden XST to the B210... more punchy, tighter, and a much more aggressive upper mid and treble response that really cuts through the mix.

However, the B210 is a special cab..... very deep, very polite and organic up top, and quite even.. great stuff also.

If that's the sound you are looking for, nothing will give you that like the Acme IMO and IME.

You might want to try an Epi310UL also before you make a final decision... more volume and low end than the XST, lighter (but a little larger), and much punchier with better upper treble response than the B210 IME.

All good stuff!

 

[msquared]

The idea of an Eden head running into my Acme B2 gives me the happy wibbles.

 

[cheesybass]

I've been driving an Eden WT-550 into an Acme Low B 2 for several years now. It produces absolutely gorgeous sound. "Happy wibbles," that's a good one.

 

[Stumpy]

since you are not happy with the 210xst...I could offer you 5 bucks...cash money...American.

I have the 210xst with a 410xlt. I find that the 210xst by it self will not do IT for me. But when connected with the xlt (either the 410 or the 210) it seems to shine more.

Just a thought.

 

[amos]

If you like that huge low end of the Acme, no other 210 (other than the discontinued EA VL-210) will give you that sort of tone. The Bag End line of speakers is very mid punchy in general, and to my ear is closer to your XST than the B210.

The Bag End 210 deep cab I heard was very deep...but I have never heard the Acmes so I couldn't compare. To the OP: The Bag End 210-deep is a great stand-alone cab.

 

[Kindness]

If you like that huge low end of the Acme, no other 210 (other than the discontinued EA VL-210) will give you that sort of tone.

I agree, but it isn't just the "huge low end" it is the balanced output throughout the spectrum, including the lack of lost low end. I know that's what you mean, but your emphasis on the low end loses some of the point of the cab itself. Even when I don't have a huge low end, it is the cab I reach for to faithfully reproduce the signal I feed it.

I love Acmes and have used them extensively for many years. However, I rarely recommend them to others, as in many cases I think they look better on paper than they sound in reality. I mean, when looking at specs, who doesn't want faithful reproduction and less loss in the low end than other cabs? It sounds like it should be what we all want. IME, it isn't for everyone and probably isn't right for the majority of players. However, in the case where someone has played an Acme and knows they like it, I can't recommend them any stronger than I do.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I agree with KJung. The low end on the Acme kills the Eden for sure, but the Acme, from my experience, does not do the upper-mid and treble registers nearly as well. Ideally, you'd have an Acme and something on top of it to handle the higher frequencies.

 

[jokerjkny]

I have been using an Eden WT550 into a 4 ohm Eden 210 XST. Last night I lugged this simple rig to my gig. When I got there, the opening band had a bassist that played upright into a small pre-amp into a QSC power amp into an Acme Low B. I got to chatting with him about the Acme and Eden stuff. We had a few minutes before we started to set up, so he and I did a little shootout of the 2x10 boxes. Those cabs are not even in the same league!! That little Acme just blew away the Eden hands down. I've always had sooo much trouble getting a decent tone/bottom end out of that XST. I could never really hear it. I did not change any amp settings, but kept unplugging the Eden box and plugging in the Acme, comparing the sound. The tone of the Acme was thunderous, clear, and very hi-fi. The Eden is very mid heavy cab to my ears. In the comparison, we had the Eden WT550 set flat and just kept switching the cabs. I kept hearing stories about the Acme and it's efficiency, but I found hardly any difference at all in comparing it to the Eden 2x10. In fact when the Eden gave up volume wise and started farting, the Acme just bloomed and got better sounding and louder.

Now if I can only compare a Bag End 210 with the Acme, I can narrow down my purchase decision. Has anyone out there compared these 2?

Now I understand what all the Acme fuss is about.

agreed!

the so-called neutral'ish XST never really sounded that neutral or easy as the acme b2. nor did the bottom end feel as low as the specs demonstrate. same is true with their D112XLT, which supposedly hits 32hz.

and tho i'd like a touch more wattage, the 550 sounds great with the acme cabs, especially w/ that versatile eden EQ. also, love how the 550 stacks on a sideways B2 very nicely. tho i havent tried a bag end 2x10 in a long while, the b2 is easily one of the fuller sounding 2x10's i've ever used.

best of all, love the fact that the B2 is a third less than the XST!

 

[jokerjkny]

I agree with KJung. The low end on the Acme kills the Eden for sure, but the Acme, from my experience, does not do the upper-mid and treble registers nearly as well. Ideally, you'd have an Acme and something on top of it to handle the higher frequencies.

its interesting, but after using acmes for as long as i have, i'm realizing many cabs seem to be overhyped in the upper and higher treble ranges, which most likely are for a really cutting sound.

as the cliche goes, listening to my bass thru the acmes is a closer reminder of how my bass sounds thru a few studio monitors.

 

[Lobaw]

There's something about running an Eden into an Acme that really works well. I used a WT800 in stereo with a Low B on each channel and loved the sound.

With the right amount of power, Acme's are like having a P.A. in your pocket.

 

[jokerjkny]

(...)
I love Acmes and have used them extensively for many years. However, I rarely recommend them to others, as in many cases I think they look better on paper than they sound in reality. I mean, when looking at specs, who doesn't want faithful reproduction and less loss in the low end than other cabs? It sounds like it should be what we all want. IME, it isn't for everyone and probably isn't right for the majority of players. However, in the case where someone has played an Acme and knows they like it, I can't recommend them any stronger than I do.

hard rockin' metal like situations where punching thru walls is the only option are not a place where an acme b2 will shine. but if a player is in the fortuitous situation, where you, your bandmates, and your audience can appreciate a quality bass sound, the acmes are terrific. and that doesnt necessarily mean "low volume, jazz like settings", which frankly demonstrates that most players havent really given the acme a real fair shake.

 

[oddio]

i'm realizing many cabs seem to be overhyped in the upper and higher treble ranges, which most likely are for a really cutting sound.

+1
There aren't too many other bass cabinets that, when hooked up for full range music playback, are quite as pleasing as the Acmes. One certainly gets no sense of a diminished or polite high end using a stereo pair in a "studio monitor" context.

 

[dubsymmetry]

I play a eden wt550 into 2 low b1s - with double bass (1 b1 most of the time), and also with electric bass.
what I like about the cabs is what others have pointed out, what you put in you get out, over the whole audible range - it´s a little PA, really.
for me they also shine at one of those loud & dirty gigs, where I use a lot of effects and I can hear in the acmes a fair estimation of how the DI signal will sound front of house....

 

[KJung]

I agree, but it isn't just the "huge low end" it is the balanced output throughout the spectrum, including the lack of lost low end. I know that's what you mean, but your emphasis on the low end loses some of the point of the cab itself. Even when I don't have a huge low end, it is the cab I reach for to faithfully reproduce the signal I feed it.

I love Acmes and have used them extensively for many years. However, I rarely recommend them to others, as in many cases I think they look better on paper than they sound in reality. I mean, when looking at specs, who doesn't want faithful reproduction and less loss in the low end than other cabs? It sounds like it should be what we all want. IME, it isn't for everyone and probably isn't right for the majority of players. However, in the case where someone has played an Acme and knows they like it, I can't recommend them any stronger than I do.

+1

 

[alexclaber]

I agree with KJung. The low end on the Acme kills the Eden for sure, but the Acme, from my experience, does not do the upper-mid and treble registers nearly as well. Ideally, you'd have an Acme and something on top of it to handle the higher frequencies.

That would completely miss the point of the fantastic smooth clear and open midrange and treble from the Acmes. When you say the Acmes don't do the upper-mid and treble as well as the Eden, aren't you actually saying that there aren't the response peaks and hyped up compression tweeter treble that you're used to? I know that a lot of players expect that colouration and thus prefer it, particularly because it gets you heard in a dense mix, but quantitatively it certainly isn't better, it's just different.

If you want the Acme bottom added to the sound of a typical cab then the W cabs make sense. If you want to hear what your bass really sounds like, then using Acmes for the entirety of you sound is fabulous.

I remember trying a 210XLT rig ages ago - I was expecting so much from it because they were the hot cabs on the scene, before Epifani, Bergantino et al turned up. I assumed they'd be similar to my Acmes but louder and less deep. In comparison they sounded like playing through a foghorn! Loud, yes. Bright, yes. But the midrange was just weird, loud in places but totally missing in others, and then there was this disembodied tweeter screeching on top. I guess if you have a very smooth sounding bass then all that added colouration works great. But if your bass has plenty of grrr of its own, as my old Warwick certainly does, then the much more true and honest sound of the Acmes is far preferable to my ear.

Alex

 

[KJung]

That would completely miss the point of the fantastic smooth clear and open midrange and treble from the Acmes. When you say the Acmes don't do the upper-mid and treble as well as the Eden, aren't you actually saying that there aren't the response peaks and hyped up compression tweeter treble that you're used to? I know that a lot of players expect that colouration and thus prefer it, particularly because it gets you heard in a dense mix, but quantitatively it certainly isn't better, it's just different.

If you want the Acme bottom added to the sound of a typical cab then the W cabs make sense. If you want to hear what your bass really sounds like, then using Acmes for the entirety of you sound is fabulous.

I remember trying a 210XLT rig ages ago - I was expecting so much from it because they were the hot cabs on the scene, before Epifani, Bergantino et al turned up. I assumed they'd be similar to my Acmes but louder and less deep. In comparison they sounded like playing through a foghorn! Loud, yes. Bright, yes. But the midrange was just weird, loud in places but totally missing in others, and then there was this disembodied tweeter screeching on top. I guess if you have a very smooth sounding bass then all that added colouration works great. But if your bass has plenty of grrr of its own, as my old Warwick certainly does, then the much more true and honest sound of the Acmes is far preferable to my ear.

Alex

The 210XLT is a completely different cab and voicing from the wonderful 210XST we are talking about in this thread. I hear the 210XLT similar to your description. The XST is much more even, deeper lows, but as most have mention, still has a bump in the upper mids and a very strong horn type tweeter to give you that aggressive grind and punch if that's what you are looking for.

However, the XST also, as the OP mentions, sounds completely different from the Acme (as most cabs do!), so it would be easy to quickly determine a 'favorite tone' between those two.

 

[Eminor3rd]

That would completely miss the point of the fantastic smooth clear and open midrange and treble from the Acmes. When you say the Acmes don't do the upper-mid and treble as well as the Eden, aren't you actually saying that there aren't the response peaks and hyped up compression tweeter treble that you're used to? I know that a lot of players expect that colouration and thus prefer it, particularly because it gets you heard in a dense mix, but quantitatively it certainly isn't better, it's just different.

If you want the Acme bottom added to the sound of a typical cab then the W cabs make sense. If you want to hear what your bass really sounds like, then using Acmes for the entirety of you sound is fabulous.

I remember trying a 210XLT rig ages ago - I was expecting so much from it because they were the hot cabs on the scene, before Epifani, Bergantino et al turned up. I assumed they'd be similar to my Acmes but louder and less deep. In comparison they sounded like playing through a foghorn! Loud, yes. Bright, yes. But the midrange was just weird, loud in places but totally missing in others, and then there was this disembodied tweeter screeching on top. I guess if you have a very smooth sounding bass then all that added colouration works great. But if your bass has plenty of grrr of its own, as my old Warwick certainly does, then the much more true and honest sound of the Acmes is far preferable to my ear.

Alex

No, you're right. I understand that the Eden, like most cabinets, have specific voicings for the upper-mids. I'm not trying to knock the Acmes. It's just that, in my experience, the flattest and truest of tones don;t tend to be as useful in a live setting. I'm not talking about cutting through, as I don't believe that is something we should strive for. I'm talking about the tone sitting well in the mix. It seems to me that without some sort of voicing, in order for the volume to be high enough to occupy it's proper frequency range relative to what the audience hears, the bottom becomes quite muddy without some pretty serious EQ'ing.

Now, as a disclaimer, I've only heard Acmes used in a live setting twice, and was only able to play them once in a used music store. Both live settings were jam-bandy things, and I'm sure there would be much less mud in a more refined setting. I also don't know how the players EQ'd their amps.

So, take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[firebass6]

Im looking for a used 210xst

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

It's much easier to add midrange to an Acme than it is to remove it from an Eden.