• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Education question.

Z

Zarathustrah

Apr 21, 2009
26
0
#1
I'm a working jazz musician, however I've started accepting some entry level bass students who are interested in pursuing orchestra at their school.

I'm just curious what method book do you generally use with your students who are entry level players?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
#5
The Vance books are held in high regard for these purposes. I've had good results with Rabbath 1 with serious minded high school students. With the attention spans of most young kids these days though, Simandl doesn't show up on the stand until they display a high level of dedication.
 
#6
chicagodoubler said:
The Vance books are held in high regard for these purposes. I've had good results with Rabbath 1 with serious minded high school students. With the attention spans of most young kids these days though, Simandl doesn't show up on the stand until they display a high level of dedication.
Click to expand...

You should definitely familiarize yourself with the Vance book. Oh - and I also use Suzuki books for the solos.

BUT - I usually use the cello books for my bassists and white-out the fingerings. The Suzuki bass books use Vance's fingerings which are very different from traditional fingerings and different than what a beginning elementary or middle school bassist will encounter. He does a lot of things up in 4th (Simandl system) position. This does work well with Gale's books. And book 2 (i think it's 2) does a lot of thumb position. Look at the Suzuki books - they jump all over the place. I'm not a fan of the Suzuki bass books but I do like to use the cello ones. Yes I may sound like a heretic there but this is after 17 years of teaching and I've taught / teach all grades including college....
 
#11
Bille is golden. Re: Suzuki bass... What the heck? I don't know a single professional pedagogue who uses this book. Even dedicated Suzuki programs use different books. In my not so humble opinion it needs to be trashed and rewritten. And... Not to sound like a broken record but Simandl 30 is a gift from above. It fixes a tremendous number of problems. If one honestly analyzes the challenge of each étude and takes the time to work through them with diligence, excellent things happen.
 
#12
chicagodoubler said:
Bille is golden. Re: Suzuki bass... What the heck? I don't know a single professional pedagogue who uses this book. Even dedicated Suzuki programs use different books. In my not so humble opinion it needs to be trashed and rewritten. And... Not to sound like a broken record but Simandl 30 is a gift from above. It fixes a tremendous number of problems. If one honestly analyzes the challenge of each étude and takes the time to work through them with diligence, excellent things happen.
Click to expand...

I agree about the Suzuki! It's such a mismatch to the rest and not even cohesive within its own series.

Wow! I haven't used the Simandl 30 etudes in years. They are useful but dry- as Simandl is- but more fun than the method. The method if you know how to use it wisely in reasonable doses is invaluable.
 
#13
Mostly-

The 30 are dry, but there apparently are piano parts, and the book is like boot camp for a section player. Also, we apparently need to do the hang. Pm me.

Fwiw, at this point I find far more value in the 30 than in the method for many young students. The first ten or so etudes are incredibly challenging to truly play well, and the benefits are extraordinary.
 
#15
Les Fret said:
Can someone explain Bille's fingering system in short? Is replacing 2 (Simandl system) with 3 all there is?
Click to expand...

from what I understand, that's basically it. It comes from (once again, as I understand it) long string length basses with high action in the Italian school. One would use 1-3 for a half step as it is stronger and has a slightly farther reach than 1-2, and 1-4 for a full step just like the german school. How this translates into chromatic stuff (where in the german/simandl school one uses 1-2-4) I have no idea, but assumably the Italian school uses 1-3-4.

When I play, I'll use 2 or 3 depending on situation. for a G major or C major scale, for the interval between B and C (or E and F in the c major scale) i use 1-3, but for example, between the C# and D on the G string in a D major scale, I would use 1-3 ascending (were I to continue onto the next octave) and 4-2 descending.

But then, i'm one of those crazy Canadians. yeesh. ;)

eerbrev
 
#19
eerbrev said:
from what I understand, that's basically it. It comes from (once again, as I understand it) long string length basses with high action in the Italian school. One would use 1-3 for a half step as it is stronger and has a slightly farther reach than 1-2, and 1-4 for a full step just like the german school. How this translates into chromatic stuff (where in the german/simandl school one uses 1-2-4) I have no idea, but assumably the Italian school uses 1-3-4.
Click to expand...

Thanks. 1-3 for half steps makes sense but 3-4 is more awkward then 2-4 in most situations I think. Especially for whole steps. I wonder how in Bille's system they would play for example A-Bb-C-Bb on the G string. Sometimes I use 1-2-4-2 for this but would that be 1-3-4-3 with some pivot in Bille's system?

Don't want to 'convert' to Bille's system but just want to understand the basic principe. Just so I know what it is.
 
#20
Unless a teacher advocates it, don't worry about 1-3-4 for Bille.

Every teacher I know who uses it just replaces 1-2-4. The important part of Bille is the material. To my knowledge it is not taught in the Americas as a "method" per se. It's just a great set of etude books.

Just like working out of Rabbath's methods- you can use normal Simandl fingerings all day long and still get the benefit of the etudes.

Marco Panascia would be a good guy to talk to. He's the only guy I know stateside who uses 1-3-4 all the time.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back