Effect builders sales techniques. Helpful or hurtful?

[2010P]

This is just a thread to discuss selling techniques we prefer to ones we don't. Perhaps this may be helpful to builders.

One trend I am seeing a lot with the boutique guys is making small runs of pedals, getting some hype going, and then using the old "this will be the last time these pedals are offered at this price" or "this is the last run for a while" or other similar things.

Thing is, next week there's a new run at the same price. I won't name names, but a small builder just had a sale where he knocked off $50 bucks off his prices. He said it was a one day sale only. Well, the sale lasted two days and then went back up a few days later. I just ask myself, why not just always offer them for the sale price? If your main sales are coming from times you offer your pedals for lower prices, it seems logical that keeping the prices low all the time would translate to more sales.

Then we have all the black friday sales or Friday the 13th sales and I wonder why people just don't wait till then to buy. I sort of build up my wish list all year and wait for the sales to occur.

I'm not quite sure where I am going with all this, but to me it seems like a nice simple business model of affordable prices and having an easily purchased stock with no wait list seems like the most pro way to go. Fuzzrocious seems to be the ideal model of this. Any thoughts?

 

[Grahams Groove]

Well, it all depends on which builders/brands you are talking about, and how productive their operations are. Boutique is a broad terms in the pedal world, and I definitely wouldn't expect all "boutique" brands to have the same size or scale of production. Comparing builders like Dunwich, Broughton, EAE, etc. to Fuzzrocious is not a reasonable comparison. It seems like Fuzzrocious is able to produce quite a bit more in terms of volume. Just look at Reverb and compare the quantities available. Fuzzrocious is also able to supply a limited number of accounts/retailers, where much smaller boutique builders don't seem to have that bandwidth.

I'm sure there are some brands/builders that short the supply to increase interest & demand. That's certainly not a new tactic, or one that's unique to small & independent companies. The beauty of the market is that you can choose builders and brands you like, and it doesn't matter what the other folks do.

 

[bassbrad]

Like it or not we are a capitalistic society and marketing is part of the game. We have all seen these things some interesting some real hack jobs, as long as the builders deliver fair value on time I have no issue.
I like the idea of exclusivity, limited runs, unique features, custom jobs and the occasional bargain.

 

[dunwichamps]

This is just a thread to discuss selling techniques we prefer to ones we don't. Perhaps this may be helpful to builders.

One trend I am seeing a lot with the boutique guys is making small runs of pedals, getting some hype going, and then using the old "this will be the last time these pedals are offered at this price" or "this is the last run for a while" or other similar things.

Thing is, next week there's a new run at the same price. I won't name names, but a small builder just had a sale where he knocked off $50 bucks off his prices. He said it was a one day sale only. Well, the sale lasted two days and then went back up a few days later. I just ask myself, why not just always offer them for the sale price? If your main sales are coming from times you offer your pedals for lower prices, it seems logical that keeping the prices low all the time would translate to more sales.

Then we have all the black friday sales or Friday the 13th sales and I wonder why people just don't wait till then to buy. I sort of build up my wish list all year and wait for the sales to occur.

I'm not quite sure where I am going with all this, but to me it seems like a nice simple business model of affordable prices and having an easily purchased stock with no wait list seems like the most pro way to go. Fuzzrocious seems to be the ideal model of this. Any thoughts?

yea i can understand where you are coming from. I see this type of technique employed by some builders. It can really be frustrating for customers to feel they are being jerked around. Ultimatly I think it drives business away. It will certainly rub loyal customers the wrong way if you never are being truthful about what you are doing.

That is why I don't have sales or limited specials. Our production is limited by the nature of how much time I can delve into it rather than be artificially restricting stock to create demand. I have even been lowering all prices over time as build efficiency improves.

 

[mmbongo]

lol that kinda reminds me of AT LEAST two years ago, the hottest thing was the Earthquaker Cloven Hoof and I wanted one real bad because they were limited and would never be made again but I never could make it happen and I forgot about it. Then just the other day I saw that Cloven Hoof version 4 is being released, this time with a different graphic! Point being, there were only like 100 made when I wanted one but they never quit making it.

 

[2010P]

Here's one that also irks me. Builder advertises pedal as limited edition, never to be made again. Then a couple months later they happen to just accidentally "find" a stack of pcb's and offer a new run. ***??? How do you not remember you had a stack of PCB's lying around?

 

[knumbskull]

pure speculation here, if you want hard facts then keep moving...

I think some of the smaller builders are literally one person, and it's probably not their main job. So that's going to limit how many pedals they can make and in turn how much they can discount them and still make a reasonable turnover.

As for "never for sale again... oh wait yes it is"-type situations, as I understand it some circuits might be based on hard-to-find or out-of-production components. So it might be that a builder doesn't expect to be able to make any more of a certain circuit, but then stumbles on another source of the components.

Or maybe something doesn't sell well at first, but later gets a bit of a cult following. I don't know.

final 2c: the US is a very customer-service oriented place, and people's expectations are set accordingly. But small builders simply might not have the resources to provide the kind of service you expect from the big boys – so as the OP says: "a nice simple business model of affordable prices and having an easily purchased stock with no wait list" might not be possible if it's (as an imaginary example) one dude/dudette hand-making pedals in their tiny apartment in between working shifts at the bakery or wherever.

On the plus side, there are lots of cool pedals out there from makers of all sizes

 

[rratajski]

Here's the thing...the mass of the market doesn't care about shady business practices (finding PCBs, finding enclosures, never to be made again then made again, I don't run sales yet I need money so here's another sale, and so on) and most seem to just be looking for the cheapest way to get what they lust after.

I'll be blunt...
Sales after sales after sales models from makers and dealers/stores are destroying the market/industry for "the rest of us." All this does is consistently undersell the maker and competition. Healthy competition is good, the race to the bottom is not.

Using one's personal life to push sales is scummy and consider the fact that a business' income should not equal one's personal income. When I need to buy a new car, Fuzzrocious won't be doing sales to help us buy one. I write a paycheck for the same amount every two weeks...it's my personal job in my life to manage my family's money and not co-mingle it with Fuzzrocious money. If a company is raising money for someone else or a charity, GO FOR IT! Helping others rather than yourself is a reason to push sales. (Yes, I understand capitalism, but I want to see a HUMAN element in the effects world because in the big picture of reality and existence, MONEY DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING)

Buying on the used market is great for getting a deal, but if you actually care about the business, support direct or buy at full price from a dealer you love. If the bulk of sales of a company's product are sold on sale (direct or dealer) and on the used market, the maker cannot exist for very long.

If you fall for the maker who is granting $50 off willy nilly and jumping on the "oh s/he found more PCBs and enclosure" train, I urge you to take a closer look at the business as a whole.

Take chances of new ideas and original circuits. The clone game is as rampant as ever and occasionally it can be fun to open up a circuit to improve it, but man, sometimes it feels like circling the drain when there's a great bidet sitting in the next bathroom over. I started with clones and clone improvements, but it is more rewarding to push further from time to time and even more rewarding when customers take the chance and love what you've created for/with them.

 

[rratajski]

As for "never for sale again... oh wait yes it is"-type situations, as I understand it some circuits might be based on hard-to-find or out-of-production components. So it might be that a builder doesn't expect to be able to make any more of a certain circuit, but then stumbles on another source of the components.

You've made excellent, valid points! Thank you.
To the quote above, personally, I feel it's more a tactic to get sales. While many parts go out of production, the internet is pretty used to use to find the part that X store doesn't stock anymore. Prices go up on parts, but totally gone-obsolete parts without a surface mount part or equivalent is pretty rare. Specific old stock germanium transistors that some dude has in his attic in a box from his grandpappy is rare, but well, those transistors with specific values kind of were always rare/not easy to come by (I may be wrong haha).

 

[2010P]

Here's the thing...the mass of the market doesn't care about shady business practices (finding PCBs, finding enclosures, never to be made again then made again, I don't run sales yet I need money so here's another sale, and so on) and most seem to just be looking for the cheapest way to get what they lust after.

I'll be blunt...
Sales after sales after sales models from makers and dealers/stores are destroying the market/industry for "the rest of us." All this does is consistently undersell the maker and competition. Healthy competition is good, the race to the bottom is not.

Using one's personal life to push sales is scummy and consider the fact that a business' income should not equal one's personal income. When I need to buy a new car, Fuzzrocious won't be doing sales to help us buy one. I write a paycheck for the same amount every two weeks...it's my personal job in my life to manage my family's money and not co-mingle it with Fuzzrocious money. If a company is raising money for someone else or a charity, GO FOR IT! Helping others rather than yourself is a reason to push sales. (Yes, I understand capitalism, but I want to see a HUMAN element in the effects world because in the big picture of reality and existence, MONEY DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING)

Buying on the used market is great for getting a deal, but if you actually care about the business, support direct or buy at full price from a dealer you love. If the bulk of sales of a company's product are sold on sale (direct or dealer) and on the used market, the maker cannot exist for very long.

If you fall for the maker who is granting $50 off willy nilly and jumping on the "oh s/he found more PCBs and enclosure" train, I urge you to take a closer look at the business as a whole.

Take chances of new ideas and original circuits. The clone game is as rampant as ever and occasionally it can be fun to open up a circuit to improve it, but man, sometimes it feels like circling the drain when there's a great bidet sitting in the next bathroom over. I started with clones and clone improvements, but it is more rewarding to push further from time to time and even more rewarding when customers take the chance and love what you've created for/with them.

Thanks. Excellent post and one that I was hoping would be posted. I am especially interested in the opinions of builders. You have a business model that makes much more sense to me and one I wish more builders would emulate.

There does seem to be a race to the bottom and I can't imagine it's an easy time for any builder looking to make a living out of this.

Just judging from used sales, I can't for the life of me figure out how enough new pedals are being sold out there to keep even the biggest of indie builders afloat.

Personally, and in my very uninformed opinion, the plethora of builders with questionable sales techniques out there are not doing themselves any favor, let alone the industry.

 

[knumbskull]

You've made excellent, valid points! Thank you.
To the quote above, personally, I feel it's more a tactic to get sales. While many parts go out of production, the internet is pretty used to use to find the part that X store doesn't stock anymore. Prices go up on parts, but totally gone-obsolete parts without a surface mount part or equivalent is pretty rare. Specific old stock germanium transistors that some dude has in his attic in a box from his grandpappy is rare, but well, those transistors with specific values kind of were always rare/not easy to come by (I may be wrong haha).

thanks, interesting! clearly i'm too gullible, i was imagining boxes of old parts being found in derelict electronics factories in Japan...

it's good to hear the thoughts of someone who knows their stuff about this. keep up the good work, too!

 

[father of fires]

I've done some of these things I guess but never in scummy way I hope.

I am just one guy and what I do is driven by my own goals AND the market.

I never know the interest level of a pedal so I only build a few at a time. Without the intention of building a whole well thought out production line. So my pricing and availability is usually a guestimate.

Then when I sell out I run the numbers and I lost money or I sell out and get 10 more inquiries. So I build 10 more at the old price knowing I'm not making the money I should be.

I don't do sales myself but I keep prices as low as I can for as long as I can and I want the customers to have fair warning if the price is gonna jump.

I will say small guys need to be flexible. If a sale is working then you should keep it going.

If a sale isn't working then change tactics.

You get more orders when there's a sense of urgency.

It's not shady. It's marketing. It's the life blood of any small business.

 

[rratajski]

I've done some of these things I guess but never in scummy way I hope.

I am just one guy and what I do is driven by my own goals AND the market.

I never know the interest level of a pedal so I only build a few at a time. Without the intention of building a whole well thought out production line. So my pricing and availability is usually a guestimate.

Then when I sell out I run the numbers and I lost money or I sell out and get 10 more inquiries. So I build 10 more at the old price knowing I'm not making the money I should be.

I don't do sales myself but I keep prices as low as I can for as long as I can and I want the customers to have fair warning if the price is gonna jump.

I will say small guys need to be flexible. If a sale is working then you should keep it going.

If a sale isn't working then change tactics.

You get more orders when there's a sense of urgency.

It's not shady. It's marketing. It's the life blood of any small business.

You're a dreamboat and do things well. You're not a sale guy or a discount guy. You do the small batch, handmade thing really well and it looks like things are organically growing. The hard balance at that level is being able to turn the profit made into ordering more parts for the next batch/new thing. It's a scary cycle at times (I know because I have been there).

While you are small batch, I don't think you fall into any of the aforementioned issues discussed above .

 

[boomertech]

Using one's personal life to push sales is scummy and consider the fact that a business' income should not equal one's personal income. When I need to buy a new car, Fuzzrocious won't be doing sales to help us buy one. I write a paycheck for the same amount every two weeks...it's my personal job in my life to manage my family's money and not co-mingle it with Fuzzrocious money.

Please explain, what is scummy with using one's personal life to generate sales? Also, personal income of most self employed individuals is equal to and 100% tied to their business income.

-Frank

 

[father of fires]

Please explain, what is scummy with using one's personal life to generate sales? Also, personal income of most self employed individuals is equal to and 100% tied to their business income.

-Frank

I don't know what specific situation everyone is referring to but I took it as when someone uses guilt or pity as a sales ploy vs an actual emergency or charity.

I guess there's a fine line between the two depending on your point of view.

And true with a sole proprietorship all the businesses money is your money but when you pay yourself a living wage independent of your profit margins then personal emergencies can be mitigated privately instead of publicly through your business.

This is a definite different strokes for different folks type of situation.

All of these methods workt to some degree.

I may not build pedals for a living but I write contracts at my day job and many of them are with small businesses so I see all the ups and downs.

 

[boomertech]

I never know the interest level of a pedal so I only build a few at a time. Without the intention of building a whole well thought out production line. So my pricing and availability is usually a guestimate.

That may be your business model for many, many, many years. When you think you have the balance of supply and demand figured out, something will always come along and change it. There is nothing worse than having thousand of dollars tied up in units sitting on shelves when your savings is evaporating and the rent is coming due.

Then when I sell out I run the numbers and I lost money or I sell out and get 10 more inquiries. So I build 10 more at the old price knowing I'm not making the money I should be.

Totally been there!

-Frank

 

[Blaargh]

Off the top of my head I can't think of any particularly heinous practices (also a little tentative about having a bitch, being aware I don't know what it's like from the builder's perspective). I suppose I find EQD are prone to overhyping things sometimes? I mean, when the Data Corrupter came out I heard more about it than when an actual artist releases an album, which is really the point of all this. This is probably just me being British though, we don't go in for that sort of thing.

I'm also a little tired of brands that put out a million different dirt pedals designed to emulate each version of a muff or tubescreamer or whatever- especially if those builders offer almost nothing else (maybe a token analog delay). It's 2018, there are enough overdrives available. Even if I'm buying an overdrive, I'm still more likely to buy it from a brand that makes some weirder stuff because that means they're the kind of interesting company that I'd like to support.

At least put oscillation switches on everything.

 

[rratajski]

Please explain, what is scummy with using one's personal life to generate sales? Also, personal income of most self employed individuals is equal to and 100% tied to their business income.

-Frank

I will PM you. Don't want to publicly throw people under any gear busses.

 

[2010P]

I've done some of these things I guess but never in scummy way I hope.

I am just one guy and what I do is driven by my own goals AND the market.

I never know the interest level of a pedal so I only build a few at a time. Without the intention of building a whole well thought out production line. So my pricing and availability is usually a guestimate.

Then when I sell out I run the numbers and I lost money or I sell out and get 10 more inquiries. So I build 10 more at the old price knowing I'm not making the money I should be.

I don't do sales myself but I keep prices as low as I can for as long as I can and I want the customers to have fair warning if the price is gonna jump.

I will say small guys need to be flexible. If a sale is working then you should keep it going.

If a sale isn't working then change tactics.

You get more orders when there's a sense of urgency.

It's not shady. It's marketing. It's the life blood of any small business.

For the record, DA is NOT a company I was alluding to in my op. Like I said, I wanted to keep it above board and just call out poor sales techniques, not call out individual companies.

 

[boomertech]

Then we have all the black friday sales or Friday the 13th sales and I wonder why people just don't wait till then to buy. I sort of build up my wish list all year and wait for the sales to occur.

We had our first Black Friday sale last year. I was never into having a sale before, but I was convinced that it would be a good idea to generate more FEA exposure. I received several emails after the sale stock was gone, asking if we are going to have more sales in the future? Many people will ONLY buy a sale item.

That explains why we had a mattress store around here that had a three year long going out of business sale.

-Frank